/k/ - Weapons » Thread #298936

[48 / 0 / ?]

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:04:00 No.298936 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By:

So, /k, how effective do you think FPS games are in training people to use guns and surviving in a firefight, particularly for soldiers?

SaigaGuy !IB21geQPt.

SaigaGuy !IB21geQPt. Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:05:00 No.298937 Report

Quoted By:

They aren't, as a rule.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:17:00 No.298949 Report

Quoted By:

generally they arent going to help any, however the EST and FATS programs are very good for training, basically, if you dont have hands on a weapon( no the nintendo lightgun doesnt count) its really not going to help

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:28:00 No.298957 Report

Quoted By:

Hand-eye coordination is about it.

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:41:00 No.298966 Report

Quoted By:

What about flanking?

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Wed 18 Oct 2006 05:43:00 No.298968 Report

Quoted By:

For infantry?

Pluses:
Its cheap, you dont have to worry about the weather, soldiers can fight all day from the comfort of their chairs, and you can practice every kind of scenario from deployment to extraction. Its also cheap to do.

Minuses:
Its not the best kind of experience to gain. They arnt holding their rifles or walking with heavy packs, their bodies arnt getting more used to the stress and strain of combat. Its apt to build many bad habits (I can jump over that railing and shoot people as I fall!).

Besides having a long exercise in movement to contact, I dont think you'll gain much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 06:02:00 No.298979 Report

Quoted By:

I think the most value it would have is purely in tactics, learning how to read the terrain and adjust to it, and how to behave as a squad. Fine for classroom time, but better to go out and do field exercises after you've had some computer practice at it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 06:18:00 No.298984 Report

Quoted By:

I'd imagine using an FPS to practice a tactic, then actually reenacting in training is helpful.

i.e.: A teacher runs through the objectives with a class, the class LANs up and plays out scenarios, class goes to a corresponding training/obstacle course and physically use the tactics and virtual training.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:06:00 No.299005 Report

Quoted By: >>299040

Having FPS to train soldiers is alot like having fun riding rollercoasters on your computer -_-

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:08:00 No.299008 Report

Quoted By: >>299011

i play lots of fps but i still can't shoot straight

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:11:00 No.299011 Report

Quoted By: >>299019

>>299008
i think the fps is more to show you how to move in certain envios, crouching, crawling, hiding ect, and how to take cover and run tactics. not shooting.

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:18:00 No.299019 Report

Quoted By: >>299044 >>299370

>>299011
Even that isint fully useful. It will show how your charachter can fit through obstacles, not how you might fit or actually be able to use that position.

Im more thinking you can easily practice things like combined arms tactics, and how to use various formations on patrol.
Anything more detailed, the computer wont simulate it too well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:35:00 No.299040 Report

Quoted By:

>>299005
some people can get motion sickness from that.

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY Wed 18 Oct 2006 07:39:00 No.299044 Report

Quoted By:

>>299019
Flaaaaankiiiiing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 21:12:00 No.299370 Report

Quoted By:

>>299019
I agree with that. It probably isn't bad for demonstrating/drilling leapfrogging forward from cover to cover while providing suppressing firing either. I don't know if they do live-fire drills of this nature, but I'd definately want as much unloaded practice as possible before running live.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 21:38:00 No.299387 Report

Quoted By: >>299389

I think FPS are very useful for target recognision. great for hostage retreval scenarios, or small scale urban raids. where you have split seconds to decide if you need to shoot or not.

Also games like ww2 online, do a great job at suppressing the natural invincible tendency you have in most FPS "oh i dont care if I die Ill come back to life" WW2O is pretty accurate in battlefield size, and it will take you hours to run from 1 town to another. When you spend the first few days running toward a battle then dying before you get a shot off, really teaches you to be careful of your character. and hopefully in turn will help you learn better survival techniques in real life.

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY

Cullen !/73ORiYgDY Wed 18 Oct 2006 21:42:00 No.299389 Report

Quoted By:

>>299387
I know I was forgetting something, and you hit the nail on the head: FPS games [that feature team-based gameplay] are good for shortening the time it takes for you to decide whether or not to shoot.

kato

kato Wed 18 Oct 2006 21:49:00 No.299396 Report

Quoted By:

*yawn* my platoon commander always played Panzer General 1-on-1 vs his secretary in his office.

Malik Carr

Malik Carr Wed 18 Oct 2006 22:58:00 No.299452 Report

Quoted By: >>299454 >>299753

I think an interesting idea would be to construct a facade training area, like a small city section or something to that effect, then have someone make a Counterstrike map of it.

Have your team play that map against each other for a while daily for a week, then actually have them go and tackle the training course and see what happens.

Now, let's compare this to a second team which will just tackle the course only.

See if the Counterstrike team performs better, then same, worse, etc. I think it would be highly enlightening.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 0B, 0x0

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 23:08:00 No.299454 Report

Quoted By: >>299474 >>299476

>>299452
OH SHI-

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

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Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Wed 18 Oct 2006 23:29:00 No.299472 Report

Quoted By: >>299753

In my personal and highly biased opinion:
You have to go outside if you want to practice running, jumping, crawling through the mud and shooting at moving targets. FPS are no good at that.
What you can do from a video game is the more tactical things. Reading maps, planning where you want to deploy your men for a battle, moving around and controlling the town.

Games can provide you an almost endless number of layouts, so why get stuck practicing in one virtual location when you can have a war anywhere in the world?
Having to deal with a new town every day outta bring out the better tactical thinkers among you.

So I say you get rid of the shooting bit (which aint no good anyway) and focus on your targeting, movement, and communication across a broad selection of location.

That would leave you with something more like this: (pic related)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 23:32:00 No.299474 Report

Quoted By:

>>299454

hahaha.. i love those china patriotic propaganda with logo of japanese firms behind them..

http://www.anyboard.net/gov/mil/anyboard/uploads/PLA_Nissan_fd0384e0ed1d65f0d1a34c2b14572efe.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Oct 2006 23:32:00 No.299476 Report

Quoted By:

>>299454
Didn't they used pirated copies of CS?

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

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Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Wed 18 Oct 2006 23:52:00 No.299488 Report

Quoted By: >>299543

LETS ROCK!

BME

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 0B, 0x0

BME Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:07:00 No.299507 Report

Quoted By: >>299531 >>299535

The swedish military had a game commissioned made in the Unreal engine, Foreign Ground. It was made to prepare the foreign force-soldiers for culture clashes during their mission abroad. There's no shooting, just going on patrol and dealing with civilians. More of an adventure game I suppose, your mission? Don't fuck up.

BME

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 0B, 0x0

BME Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:12:00 No.299520 Report

Quoted By: >>299529

http://www.defencegaming.org/foreign_ground.htm

Time to bug out!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:18:00 No.299529 Report

Quoted By:

>>299520
This just doesn't look right. It looks like a scene out of "apartheid: the video game".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:21:00 No.299531 Report

Quoted By: >>299539

>>299507
i tell him to fuck off, what happens next?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:24:00 No.299535 Report

Quoted By:

>>299507
Does it simulate having to find the cheapest prostitute?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:31:00 No.299539 Report

Quoted By:

>>299531

haha.. he call your dealer and you cant buy drugs next time..

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:34:00 No.299543 Report

Quoted By: >>299569

>>299488
No contest the americans would win, now if it was some shitty grindfest mmo or an rts than the chinese would probobly win.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 0B, 0x0

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 00:54:00 No.299569 Report

Quoted By: >>299590 >>299600 >>300236

>>299543
idk man, they can bunnyhop IRL...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 01:11:00 No.299590 Report

Quoted By:

>>299569
I always the love the 5th guy down in the second row who has his hands out at his sides like a little plane.... Look Srage, I'm flying!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 01:30:00 No.299600 Report

Quoted By: >>299749

>>299569
Is this the passanger plane version of Wonder Woman's jet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 03:43:00 No.299674 Report

Quoted By: >>299707

There is still the problem with penetration in FPS. In most games you can't shoot through objects, whereas in reality, bullets will pierce cinderblock walls and brick. Therefore shooters are next to useless at teaching you how to take cover.

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Thu 19 Oct 2006 04:34:00 No.299707 Report

Quoted By: >>299753

>>299674
Some have tried to deal with it.
It costs CPU's and, depending on map design, often wont work right.
I recall one mod called infiltration that attempted it by making objects of less than a certain thickness not stop bullets... but it couldnt tell the difference between 1" of wood and 1" of steel.
What I liked about full spectrum warrior was that it talked more in terms of the broader theory.
Lets say you had a car and a pile of crates.
The car makes for slightly better cover than cardboard, so it lasted alot longer when you put a man behind it.
In that respect it became less about how to dodge bullets and more on how to choose the right types of things to stand behind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 04:48:00 No.299713 Report

Quoted By:

Fps games doesn't really get your heart racing as much as even army paintball training does.
Fear of getting killed (or getting a 6 inch bruise on your neck), will alter your decisions in battle.

I believe it has some value in training for squad combat tactics though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 06:01:00 No.299749 Report

Quoted By:

>>299600
The post owns /k/

board over

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 06:07:00 No.299753 Report

Quoted By:

>>299452
The experiment would be better if it comparerd CS training to standard debriefings.
>>299472
Exactly, games dont replace standard training it jsut enhances portions of it.
>>299707
The new Physic Proccessing Units will make the next generation of games very interesting in this regard.

Czechnology

Czechnology Thu 19 Oct 2006 06:19:00 No.299777 Report

Quoted By:

In before "how do I tripfag?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 06:20:00 No.299778 Report

Quoted By: >>299798

Dear 4chan
How do I tripfag?

Yours truly,
anonymous

Loli !Pedo.ITffo

Loli !Pedo.ITffo Thu 19 Oct 2006 07:07:00 No.299798 Report

Quoted By:

>>299778like this^

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 11:16:00 No.300069 Report

Quoted By: >>300216 >>300229

You guys totally fucking missed the point!
The CS training is to desensitize you of killing your fellow man! Like rap music and movies they have recently integrated into the world's militaries!

Tactics blah blah KILLING PEOPLE IS FUN!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 18:03:00 No.300216 Report

Quoted By: >>300440

>>300069
i guess that'd be the major aspect of the training. it wouldn't make much sense to teach soldiers counter-strike tactics/strategies.

but i think playing counter-strike or fps games in general will improve the players understanding of field tactics on an abstract level.

e.g. professional counter-strike: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952519828914056571

Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG.

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Maxwell !ZmdSh6eNG. Thu 19 Oct 2006 18:26:00 No.300229 Report

Quoted By:

>>300069
Wait, dude, what? Killing people was fun long before they invented video games!

I dunno where all you peacniks get the strange idea that humans are some kinda wierd passive gentel creatures, like sheep grazing in a field.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 19 Oct 2006 18:43:00 No.300236 Report

Quoted By:

>>299569

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 20 Oct 2006 00:04:00 No.300440 Report

Quoted By: >>300798

>>300216
That's bullshit. When did anti-recoil scripts and wallhacks become OK for CPL gaming?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 20 Oct 2006 09:15:00 No.300798 Report

Quoted By:

>>300440
not only it'd take a lot of balls to cheat on cpl, but also it's nearly impossible - they were playing on cpl pcs with a horde of referees behind them. they're just very strong players.

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