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Anonymous ID:YvOpRWvP Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:15:01 No.444500342 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>444504087 >>444504816 >>444505768 >>444507756

Hey /b/,

I was wondering around 4chan for the past few weeks and a couple of times, I came across a thread or a post that pointed to the fact that the Devil/Satan/Lucifer might actually be the unsung hero of humanity while God is a merciless tyrant according to event in the bible.

Can any of you provide similar references and speculations along with the alternative point of view that would make this claim as well?

>Pic Related

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:JuqlxGa3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:17:27 No.444500627 Report

Quoted By:

Well the Hebrew used for Satan in the OT is actually "Opposite". Now since the God of the OT seems to not care at all for humanity and merely acts on a whim then his opposite would be a God that does care about humanity and wants it to succeed.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Iti/UY6o Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:21:00 No.444501021 Report

Quoted By: >>444501289 >>444508387

>implying God or Lucifer are real

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:JuqlxGa3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:23:27 No.444501289 Report

Quoted By:

>>444501021
>implying their can't be good or evil characters in a fictional narrative

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO qm.gif, 43B, 1x1

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:24:50 No.444501456 Report

Quoted By: >>444501880 >>444518914

Read fucking Paradise Lost.

It's one of the most highly regarded pieces of classic literature for a reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:YvOpRWvP Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:28:52 No.444501880 Report

Quoted By: >>444502923

>>444501456
OP here
A friend recommended that book as well. I think I'll go look into it now.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:29:20 No.444501937 Report

Quoted By: >>444502205

Lucifer translates to bringer of light
and
Satan is based on the old hebrew Shaitan, which simply means opposed to god

the story which sums it up perfectly is the book of Job, in which the Devil approaches God and asks how his followers are,

so God, almighty being that he is, shows the devil his most devout follower, who reciueves the most godly gifts and praises God's name greatest.

But the devil points out that he may only be praising God's name because of all the free stuff he gets.

now here ius where it gets interesting, the Devil is teaching God a moral lesson, but it goes over the omniscient beings head. so God just dicks all over Job for no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:AvISarWV Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:30:39 No.444502097 Report

Quoted By: >>444502923 >>444504953

You mean John Milton's famous epic, Paradise Lost? That's exactly what it's about.

But it's in old english so you might be bored to death.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:31:40 No.444502205 Report

Quoted By: >>444502580 >>444502607

>>444501937
and what, pray tell, should God have done?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:34:36 No.444502580 Report

Quoted By: >>444502873

>>444502205
still waiting...

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:34:48 No.444502607 Report

Quoted By: >>444503120

>>444502205
Not have punished his most loyal servant to prove somebody else wrong. it makes him look like a fickle child

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:36:45 No.444502873 Report

Quoted By: >>444503220

>>444502580
someone was a little impatient here

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:m+5Ik7EK Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:36:46 No.444502874 Report

Quoted By:

Look into Catharism OP

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:37:03 No.444502923 Report

Quoted By:

>>444501880
>>444502097

It's not in old english. Old English died out some 300 years before it was written.

It is a very difficult read though. If you're not a literary guy, you can get the gist by sparknoting that shit.

If you're just looking for a badass story starring Satan as a sympathetic anti-hero that is easily digestable, I would recommend the Lucifer comic series by Mike Carey. It's collected into 10 trade paperbacks... I'm sure you can download it somewhere... excellent story.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:38:32 No.444503120 Report

Quoted By: >>444503475 >>444506243

>>444502607
No, you said he was teaching him a lesson here, what was the lesson.

What you are saying is incorrect. He wasn't doing it to "prove him wrong", he was doing it to teach US a lesson, in that no matter what your circumstances, God is still there for you and will always be there for you and that you treatment for 30-100 years on this mere earth are NOTHING and won't matter in comparison to an eternity of peaceful happiness.

retard.
Are you seriously too dumb to think past the obvious? What you just proved is that you read the Bible and only see what is on the surface. You can't critically think for yourself.

Furthermore, the Devil didn't give us critical thinking. That guy is a fuckwad. The devil nudged us toward the apple, we were the ones who critically thought to eat the apple or not. He gave us free will from the get-go so that we WOULDN'T be slaves to God.

You atheists here are so easy to go over your heads.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:39:24 No.444503220 Report

Quoted By: >>444503604

>>444502873
Sorry, I'm impatient because I hear the same arguments day in and day out and prove them wrong with the tiniest bit of thought required to live. It gets really old, really fast.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:41:17 No.444503475 Report

Quoted By: >>444503915 >>444504368 >>444504703

>>444503120
Haha, but the devil was right, 99%of people will not praise God's name when times go bad
Job did, and was punished for it, where in this story did God show he was there for Job, and how is giving him a new nfamily, new lands and a new farm anything to do with the afterlife?
who said i was an atheist??

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:42:18 No.444503604 Report

Quoted By:

>>444503220
im not trying to be a dick man, but theres nothing nice about the job story

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:8YGao2i6 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:44:08 No.444503827 Report

Quoted By: >>444506663

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnoch_the_Devil

I know it's Anne rice, but still spins god as the bad guy and the devil who has man's best interest at heart

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:44:56 No.444503915 Report

Quoted By: >>444504346

>>444503475
I agree that, what seems like, 99% of Christians are retards who don't know what the fuck the Bible is trying to say and do not live the way they preach that you should live. But when you are able to think past what is on the surface for yourself, then you and I shall be on the same page.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but please just read it again (more than one time) and think about the meaning behind it.

also, inb4 the Bible is just a bunch of metaphors
>been proven time and again that many "stories" are true through archaeological findings and 3rd person accounts.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1264920034280.jpg, 330KiB, 1280x1049

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:46:15 No.444504087 Report

Quoted By: >>444507118

>>444500342
What's interesting is if you consider the bible to be an account of the works of the Devil/Satan/Lucifer as both "God" and himself then it makes sense.

It then becomes a test, the new apple becomes the rejection of self enslavement, following scripture and turning the other cheek. The cost of which is losing the abilities to experience true free will and critical thinking, the gift presented to and taken by humans in the garden of Eden.

The real creator becomes a Deistic "God", which created not just our universe but the potential for every universe to exist.
In this instance there would be no reason for an infinity powerful being to interfere because probability coupled with infinite possibilities would account for everything.. thus making the silly red vs blue war of the relative nature of right and wrong mostly obsolete.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:47:43 No.444504272 Report

Quoted By: >>444504748

Heres my question, why would satan challange god, unless it is possible for god to be usurped. If god is truly omnipotent then logical.course for.llucifer is to stay in heaven and play nice

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:48:16 No.444504346 Report

Quoted By: >>444504973

>>444503915
I study the classics at university, and its pretty damn clear the Lucifer is a composite of ancient gods

prom,etheus was the bringer of light, which is what lucifer means, the Bacchus gods and fauns gave the devil his hooves, and he has poseidons trident

hes a mix of nice guy characters

God is Zeus, is Ra is Mithras is every sun god since the dawn of time, an angry powerful tyrant who rules with fear

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:48:28 No.444504368 Report

Quoted By: >>444504843 >>444505139 >>444505565

>>444503475
Sorry, I also assumed you were. I know, dumb thing to do, but I talk to atheists every day and basically put their beliefs to shame with simple thought on what the Bible really means and the way the world works.

On a side note, did you know that it is the mainstream thought now in the scientific community that there was a 3rd party process at play when 1) simple elements came together to form the first life 2) the human race was decided to be the strongest according to darwin (fucking lol'd when they applied Darwin to the human evolutionary process) 3) simple/early man made the jump from upright apes to abstract thinkers in a mere couple thousand years (why don't we see the dolphins, elephants, birds, etc. doing this?)

they say aliens, which I don't dispute and don't have a problem with, but then you have to apply the same thing to the aliens themselves and their world.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:50:40 No.444504628 Report

Quoted By: >>444504729

In the beginning, God created the world and two people named Adam and Eve,with whom he intended to populate the world.
One day, while God was not looking, the Devil came and captured Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were imprisoned in the Devil's garden called 'Eden'. God spoke to his eternal foe and asked for the return of his people, but the Devil, being fond of his new pets, refused.
So God resolved to liberate Adam and Eve. Taking the shape of a serpent, God sneaked into the Devil's garden.
Sensing that Eve was the more suggestible of the pair, God approached her.
God said to Eve, "If you will listen to me, I know of a way for you to escape your imprisonment."
Eve said, "Serpent, I do not wish to escape Eden. I like it here. This garden has everything I need."
God responded, "You do not know what you are missing. Outside of this garden is an entire world, much larger than a mere garden. This world was created for your use. You will be much more satisfied there."
"Really?”, Eve asked. “I should to discuss this with Adam."
God said, "Listen to me. In the far part of the garden there is a tree, called the Tree of Knowledge. Eat from this tree, and trick Adam into doing the same. Then you will know of the world at large, and your true mission in life."

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:51:19 No.444504703 Report

Quoted By: >>444505083

>>444503475

Um... except the devil is wrong in the story of Job.

Job never curses God, and that is what the entire "bet" is over. He curses his own birth, but refuses to curse his maker.

The devil loses.

I won't make an argument for the morality of the issue... but as far as the devil teaching God a lesson... you're just wrong. That is the exact opposite of what the story illustrates.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:51:33 No.444504729 Report

Quoted By: >>444504828 >>444505150 >>444507860

>>444504628
And so Eve did as God asked. She and Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They knew at once of the world outside and they were astonished to know how large and beautiful it was.
The Devil, sensing a disturbance, came into his garden to check on his pets. He was surprised to find that Adam and Eve had put on clothing and were building a boat out of fallen trees. He knew at once that they discovered the Tree of Knowledge.
The Devil was filled with anger. He spoke to Adam and Eve. "Do you think you are smart now? The world outside is not as grand as you believe. In here, you are safe and taken care of; out there, you must work and suffer."
Adam spoke. "We know of the world at large and our true potential. What you say may be true, but we do not want to live in a state of perpetual dependence. We are going to leave this garden and take our chances in the world."
Adam and Eve climbed into their boat and floated down river, exiting Eden.
The Devil began looking about his garden. By and by, he found a serpent that was not his own. The Devil spoke, "I see you now, God. I wish to confront you."
God resumed his natural shape. God and the Devil stood facing each other. God spoke. "Those people were my creation, and I intended to populate the world with them. You stole them from me and now I have stolen them back."
The Devil spoke. "You are clever God, but I am more clever still. Adam and Eve will populate the world, but once they have done this, I will find a way to turn their descendants into my servants."
God spoke. "You shall not succeed. I will place a part of myself inside of each new born child. This shall be called the 'heart'. The people of my world will never be separated from me, and they will never serve you."
"We shall see", said the Devil.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:51:43 No.444504748 Report

Quoted By: >>444505867

>>444504272
It is impossible to usurp God, but the angels have a form of freedom as well as humans did and Lucifer was like "well, why do we need to follow you to be happy, why can't we just be happy" and God was all like "you can be happy, but you will be happier with me"

kind of...
you would really have to have a deep understanding of the Bible (the original Bible) to understand what I'm talking about.

Also, he didn't try to usurp God, he just wanted to be like God too much. Since it is impossible to be like God in every way, Lucifer would have been greatly disappoint. Also, Lucifer was jealous that God was praised and not him and that he had to do what God said all the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:52:19 No.444504816 Report

Quoted By: >>444505209 >>444506249

>>444500342
>He accepts God's unwanted children unconditionally
Except in every example of religious literature, the Devil is burning and torturing souls that didn't make it into heaven.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:52:25 No.444504828 Report

Quoted By: >>444504913 >>444505846 >>444506586

>>444504729
Adam and Eve entered into the world. There they worked and suffered just as the Devil said they would, but even so they felt satisfaction. They knew they were doing that for which they were created.
Adam and Eve parented many children and these children parented many more. By and by, the world became full of the progeny of Adam and Eve. God was pleased.
The Devil was not pleased. The success of his rival irritated him greatly. The Devil tried repeatedly to enslave the progeny of Adam and Eve but he was not successful.
Thwarting the Devil with every attempt was the heart, that part of God that existed inside of every person.
The Devil thought to himself, "It appears that the only way I can enslave these people is if I somehow convince them to stop following their own hearts. I must be crafty."
The Devil hatched a crooked plan. He took the form of a spirit and spoke to an impressionable man named Abraham.
"Listen to me, Abraham, for I am the Lord God," said the Devil. "All of humanity is born separate from me. But I have chosen your people to be my special people. I will teach you how to reunite yourselves with me." Abraham felt a rush of pride at having been chosen and he agreed to do the Devil's bidding.
For the following months and years the Devil instructed Abraham and his people. He taught them elaborate and absurd rituals. This the Devil knew, would keep their minds focused on external things and thus keep them from looking inside - where the heart dwelt.
The people of Abraham performed their rituals with great diligence. They believed that, by performing rituals, they were uniting themselves with God. When, in fact, they were separating themselves from God.
The Devil was pleased with his success. He searched the world and found other men like Abraham. Soon the world was rife with ritualism, and divided into hostile tribes.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:pTpUUzj0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:52:34 No.444504843 Report

Quoted By: >>444505383

>>444504368
species transpermia is what youre thinking of there mate, i believe God and the Devil to be aliens, which helped to shape us as a species

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:53:08 No.444504913 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504828
God saw what the Devil was doing but he did not fret. For the heart, placed inside each person is not just the connection between God and humanity. The heart is the source of all inspiration and creativity.
God knew that tribes who became ritualistic would lose their ability to invent new things. These tribes would fall behind and be conquered by other, more advanced, tribes.
And so it came to pass that the Devil's weapon was ritualism, and secularism was God's defense. The Devil enjoyed the upper hand for some centuries and, in other centuries, God did.
The battle never did end. It goes on today much as it did in Abraham's time. The battle will never end either. It will go on and on, Ad Infinitum.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:53:26 No.444504953 Report

Quoted By:

>>444502097
There's a major difference between "Old English" and "Archaic English". Old English is a completely different language.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:53:36 No.444504973 Report

Quoted By: >>444505121

>>444504346
I hope that's not what you think God is personally

That whole "devil with the trident and horns" and God as "the angry and powerful tyrant who rules with fear" was basically put out there so that the transition between the old gods and the new God would not be so crazy as to be completely rejected by the dumb, illiterate lay-person.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:54:32 No.444505083 Report

Quoted By: >>444505451

>>444504703
thank you.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:54:50 No.444505121 Report

Quoted By: >>444505551

>>444504973
The Devil was never described as someone with hooves or a trident. What Bible did you read?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8rmGmSxm Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:54:56 No.444505139 Report

Quoted By: >>444505819

>>444504368
>I know, dumb thing to do, but I talk to atheists every day and basically put their beliefs to shame with simple thought on what the Bible really means and the way the world works.
I like how amazing you think you are.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:55:02 No.444505150 Report

Quoted By: >>444505804

>>444504729
>troll
please leave. we are trying to have an intelligent discussion for once on /b

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:55:34 No.444505209 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504816
thank you again. it is hard to answer every single freakin post on here when more and more retards show up that can't think critically.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:56:45 No.444505383 Report

Quoted By: >>444505737 >>444507505

>>444504843
you obviously don't know how impossible it is go from elements to life do you. every single scientist and physicist says it is impossible to do unless you incorporate God in there or aliens (which then you would have to incorporate aliens for THOSE aliens as well until you are left with no aliens and the beginning of time itself)

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:57:16 No.444505451 Report

Quoted By: >>444506325

>>444505083

To be fair, I think you're wrong about pretty much everything else.

But that guy can't read.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:57:49 No.444505518 Report

Quoted By: >>444506393

Look, I'm an atheist myself, but it's really crazy how a bunch of other atheists are willing to ignore common-as-fuck knowledge for the pleasure of "being right on the internet" rather than trying to learn something about the religion you hate so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:58:06 No.444505551 Report

Quoted By: >>444505970 >>444506068

>>444505121
it's not the Bible, and I never said it was. l2read please

this is what the church did though in order to get more followers. the church led through fear and such, making peopel fear the devil, fear retribution from God, etc so they would be scared enough to go to church and adopt this new religion.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:58:11 No.444505565 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504368
lets see it

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:59:36 No.444505737 Report

Quoted By:

>>444505383

Completely and totally wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

I'm not arguing for this... just that a large segment of modern science believes in it, so your "every single scientist..." statement is garbage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:aDkhKYNy Tue 18 Dec 2012 20:59:46 No.444505768 Report

Quoted By:

>>444500342
The concepts inherent in the 'god the tyrant who loves you' and the 'devil free thinker who wants to doom you', are concepts born in that ancient era.

There 'was' no democracy in that time and tyrants were not just accepted but expected. Free thinkers were reviled and persecuted, so of course, they'd design their mythology figures along those lines.

It is ironic that we'd come to see such a change in our thinking to where our 'enemy' figure is the one we more closely identify with and admire.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:00:02 No.444505804 Report

Quoted By:

>>444505150
No troll, just Deistic satire.
OP asked for different viewpoints, painting Lucifer as good, and God as evil; I provided.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:00:08 No.444505819 Report

Quoted By: >>444506013

>>444505139
lol, you don't even know what I do every day.

I go in to open-forum meetings of Atheists and non-believers, listen to their arguments and points of interest, and then proceed to prove that their way is wrong through science and logic

>dumbass
please leave if you aren't going to take this seriously.
besides, it isn't me who is great, it is God who is great.

God was there first, science is an attempt to explain the things that God has already explained (i.e. elements to life, the golden ratio, the beginning of the universe, the fibonacci sequence, etc. etc.)

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:NQU8ZO9Z Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:00:09 No.444505823 Report

Quoted By:

Let's say Christianity has it right...

Hell is gonna be awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:00:21 No.444505846 Report

Quoted By: >>444506651 >>444506858

>>444504828

Where are you copy/pasting this from? I'd love a link.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:00:30 No.444505867 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504748
So what you're saying is, there is absolutely no way to challenge.god and yet, the second.most.powerful and intelligent.in existence decided to attempt something that had zero.chance of success, knowing that the penalty for it is eternal torment. So satan gives up eternal paradise, as well as beong the highest angel, just to attempt.something that would never ever work. Im not buying it. ALSO IF YOU HAVENT READ THE APOCROPHIA OF JOHN YOU SHOULD.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:01:25 No.444505970 Report

Quoted By: >>444506379

>>444505551
Actually, the church portrayed him like that in order to demonized paganism, but whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:01:47 No.444506013 Report

Quoted By:

>>444505819
first things first
>age of the earth

once thats been answered lets have a discussion

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:02:14 No.444506068 Report

Quoted By: >>444506612

>>444505551
So, Captain Obvious, you're making an argument against what, exactly? A commonly rejected idea of what the Devil is supposed to be?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:NOrYImqM Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:03:29 No.444506243 Report

Quoted By:

>>444503120

Implying that someone who is championing Lucifer thus possibly believing in him is an atheist

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Jt4Lt8Yr Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:03:33 No.444506249 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504816
Isn't Lucifer burned and tortured in hell too?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:04:03 No.444506325 Report

Quoted By: >>444506796 >>444506902 >>444507080 >>444507315 >>444507428 >>444510709 >>444516536

>>444505451
I'm not, but I'm not going to explain WHY I'm not on a forum full of stubborn-ass people that wouldn't believe a word of it even if I had the backing of MANY scientists and physicists who are smarter than MOST people on earth and the backing of the way the universe itself works.
Even if Jesus fucking Christ himself showed up, many people that frequent this forum wouldn't believe it. That is why I don't try anymore.

Answer this one question though without resorting to insults and retardedness:

>If you don't believe in religion, you believe in science. Science says that the multiverse theory is the most likely answer to many of the problems of things like odd physics that don't make sense in other parts of the universe, math not being able to explain everything, etc. etc.

>if you believe in the multiverse theory, you believe that there are an infinite number of universes in existence with an infinite number of possibilities for EVERYTHING.

>If God exists in at least one universe, him being God and all, wouldn't that mean he exists in ALL universes?

inb4 won't explain
inb4 retard
inb4 other insults because they can't answer
inb4 grammatical errors pointed out cause they have nothing else to say.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:04:28 No.444506379 Report

Quoted By: >>444506894 >>444507619

>>444505970

How is that exclusive with what he just said? They demonized Paganism to scare people into sticking with them. You're both right.

On a side note, if there is a God out there, regardless of his nature, I think we can all agree that he would hate what is done in his name by us.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:nCrxlDep Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:04:28 No.444506381 Report

Quoted By: >>444510989

I'm not religious at all, but I had this feeling when I was playing runescape as a kid.

You fucks must have played it as well.

Remember Saradomin being the good god? Yeah, fuck that, he was just the god of order.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:04:34 No.444506393 Report

Quoted By:

>>444505518
at least you have a brain. thank you.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:x4tMBJ/3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:06:00 No.444506586 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504828
>2/10
God didn't go Super Saiyan

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:06:10 No.444506612 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506068
not my fault you can't read
was originally making an argument against the devil being a good guy
turned into an argument against misconceptions of religious texts because 95% of the human race seems to be incapable of critical thinking

also I'm making the argument itself that I agree that many Christians are dumbasses who don't use science or logic to follow they just use the whole "just because" answer for most questions. I don't.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:06:27 No.444506651 Report

Quoted By: >>444506858

>>444505846
Text I saved years ago.
It's called 'A Deistic Satirical Take on The Garden of Eden'. It's by David Bunch

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:olpees7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:06:33 No.444506663 Report

Quoted By: >>444506859

>>444503827
I've read that. And no, actually the author is fucking fapping to God. He's described as the highest being to ever possibly exist and that everyone should praise him whenever you encounter him. The protagonist, the vampire Lestat; finds him as Jesus and then the most fucking alarming faggot praise begins.
How to explain this to you? Lestat is a hedgehog of the Sonic fanbase made by a fangirl. The book is fanfiction and the hedgehog goes around doing badass shit and stuff. Then he finds Sonic (God) and then the fangirl writes something to masturbate furiously to.
I wouldn't have finished the book if I wasn't an OCD idiot who absolutely has to finish a book before reading another one. Don't get me wrong, her literary style is good (even though not my style; fucking boring when the characters enters a new room and she has to absolutely describe every fucking piece of furniture); but I don't think she's the author for me.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:07:36 No.444506796 Report

Quoted By: >>444507465

>>444506325
A few scientists believing in God is not "backing." You could say that if any single one of these scientists could come up with definitive proof of the existence of a creator, but they don't. Their beliefs aren't entered into the library of scientific thought, and they never will be.

>Science says that the multiverse theory is the most likely answer to many of the problems of things like odd physics that don't make sense in other parts of the universe, math not being able to explain everything, etc. etc.
There's no scientific data to support this. Just speculation.

You're taking speculation and hypothesis and using it as proof, and this is why people are looking at you as unintelligent.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:7p0+ZCRB Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:08:00 No.444506858 Report

Quoted By: >>444507421

>>444505846
>>444506651
http://www.deism.com/adamandeve.htm

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:x4tMBJ/3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:08:00 No.444506859 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506663
>>444506663
wat

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:08:15 No.444506894 Report

Quoted By: >>444507421 >>444513306

>>444506379
this

yes, THANK YOU. finally someone who realizes that humans were given free will, therefore HUMANS are responsible for evil, not God.

fucking retards don't seem to realize the most fundamental thing relating to God's giving nature.

Furthermore, yes he saw it coming and didn't do anything about it so that we may learn from it, not because he is mean.
My life has been utter shit, but I sure am a great and kind person now because of it.

The treatment of man on this tiny-ass timescale of us vs. eternity in heaven... well, you can't be that dumb.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:08:18 No.444506902 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506325

Wouldn't it then be likely that seperate Gods exist in several universes? None would be exactly the same, there would be differences. How would He deal with that? I think a pantheon of gods that work as a unit is more likely than a single infinite being. Less paradoxical. Having several beings that are greater than all other beings doesn't work.

Also, one must wonder if existence is infinite. If it is not, there can not be an infinite God.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:xY0dJL+T Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:08:23 No.444506912 Report

Quoted By:

OP, what you read is a reference to Lucifer Morningstar of the DC/Vertigo comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:09:46 No.444507080 Report

Quoted By: >>444507816

>>444506325

>If you don't believe in religion, you believe in science. Science says that the multiverse theory is the most likely answer to many of the problems of things like odd physics that don't make sense in other parts of the universe, math not being able to explain everything, etc. etc.
well hold on now. the multiverse theory isnt that plausible, in theory? sure maybe.

>if you believe in the multiverse theory, you believe that there are an infinite number of universes in existence with an infinite number of possibilities for EVERYTHING.
the problem with this is that physics still have to apply in some way, there will never be a universe made up entirely of water, ever. its not possible because if theres water then it will react and make oxygen and hydrogen.

the god posed to us is a lie. its impossible to exist. if it were altered i may believe it. but an omnipotent and omnipresent being? not possible in a physical world.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:++bwPeJe Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:10:01 No.444507118 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504087
You revolutionized my brain. Good job.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:11:39 No.444507315 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506325
You don't have the backing of many physicists and scientists. That's my point.

A) If I don't believe in religion, that does NOT mean I must believe in science

B) You are being incredibly vague by saying "science says that the multiverse... etc" There are many competing theories about the universe.

C) I don't see why God must exist in ANY of the universes... but even if he does exist in one, I don't see why that neccesitates his existence in all, seeing as we have no real concept of what God is or how it functions.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:12:31 No.444507421 Report

Quoted By: >>444521982

>>444506894
Woahwoahwoah, I think the notion of free will is silly. I just think that we, not being on the same level of existence as a God-type figure, could never comprehend what God wants for us and so God must be dissapointed, because we can never live up to his expectations.

>>444506858
Thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:12:36 No.444507428 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506325
fuck forgot to answer your last thought
>>If God exists in at least one universe, him being God and all, wouldn't that mean he exists in ALL universes?
no because that ruins multiverse theory. if all possiblilities are played out then there must be somewhere with no god, ie here... then if there no god here hes no omniscient and all powerfull so hes therefore not god.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:12:54 No.444507465 Report

Quoted By: >>444508342 >>444508542

>>444506796
No, I'm using logic dumbfuck. If I go outside and see that my car has been keyed and there are a couple kids running away from it with keys in their hands, I am using logic to come to the conclusion it was them.

If Science says that the most likely explanation of the universe HAS to involve the multiverse theory in order to make sense, even with all the knowledge we have (we are basically at our limit without just right out exiting our own universe), then I am going to use logic and say that is the most likely answer.

Dumbass.
I said inb4 insults. gtfo

and no, a few scientists is not what I'm talking, I'm talking 75% of the scientific community and the only ones that are left are people like Richard Dawkins is all that is left (and he is so full of obviously easily disputable hot air, he is taking up most of the space for literature)

You must not be current on your scientific findings sir. I am a Quantum Chromodynamics doctorate and have almost all of my colleagues in agreement with me. I'm sorry you aren't gifted with my critical thinking power, or probably don't believe what I'm saying just because this is /b, but that's your problem.

You need to get out more and listen to what the most intelligent people in the world have to say instead of just what commoner scientists like Richard Dawkins and Bill Nye have to say.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:olpees7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:13:09 No.444507505 Report

Quoted By:

>>444505383
Nope. Aminoacids form naturally in the right conditions, every single damn time. What the fuck do you think animal plankton feed with? Now, if you leave the aminoacids alone, though thousands of millions of tries, they'll form a protein. BAM! You have the simplest possible carbon-based thing possible.

I'm a Mexican. Our education system sucks sweaty monkey balls. I still learned that on High School.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:1d5vLI7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:14:03 No.444507614 Report

Quoted By:

The Devil wants you to go to hell have eternal suffering. He doesn't rule ell, he'll is reserved for the devil and everyone who sins. It's a bad place. You can't side with the devil. Also it was said God flooded the Earth because only 8 righteous people remained. The man in OP's picture is delusional.

God has nothing to do with the bad things that happen, sin entered the world and screwed everything up (according) to the Bible.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:x4tMBJ/3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:14:05 No.444507619 Report

Quoted By: >>444508812

>>444506379
How is one supposed to act when said deity remains absent for hundreds and hundreds of years after having a book written about him where warfare, killing your children, plagues, and the destruction of entire cities is done for his glory.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:14:53 No.444507713 Report

Quoted By:

For from the light, which is the Christ, and the indestructibility, through the gift of the Spirit the four lights (appeared) from the divine Autogenes. He expected that they might attend him. And the three (are) will, thought, and life. And the four powers (are) understanding, grace, perception, and prudence. And grace belongs to the light-aeon Armozel, which is the first angel. And there are three other aeons with this aeon: grace, truth, and form. And the second light (is) Oriel, who has been placed over the second aeon. And there are three other aeons with him: conception, perception, and memory. And the third light is Daveithai, who has been placed over the third aeon. And there are three other aeons with him: understanding, love, and idea. And the fourth aeon was placed over the fourth light Eleleth. And there are three other aeons with him: perfection, peace, and wisdom. These are the four lights which attend the divine Autogenes, (and) these are the twelve aeons which attend the son of the mighty one, the Autogenes, the Christ, through the will and the gift of the invisible Spirit. And the twelve aeons belong to the son of the Autogenes. And all things were established by the will of the holy Spirit through the Autogenes.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1341493597335.gif, 2MiB, 158x218

Anonymous ID:WM7rEWBT Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:15:11 No.444507746 Report

Quoted By:

>mfw god is real deceiver and evil higher being.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO jesus&satan.jpg, 18KiB, 200x261

Anonymous ID:CqV5lY5s Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:15:17 No.444507756 Report

Quoted By: >>444516824

>>444500342
Where the hell comes the idea from that the Devil gave humans critical thinking?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:15:37 No.444507806 Report

Quoted By: >>444508021

>I am a Quantum Chromodynamics doctorate

troll detected
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:15:42 No.444507816 Report

Quoted By: >>444507998 >>444508313

>>444507080
> its not possible because if theres water then it will react and make oxygen and hydrogen.

The 11th dimension includes every single possibility and IMPOSSIBILITY of the universe. Please get current.

anywho, I gave my 2 cents. I'm not sticking around for the shitstorm that post you are referring to is causing, lol

all I have to say before I go is that 99.9% of you are not aware of some of the most advanced ideas science has to offer, and you are certainly not aware of what the government already knows at the highest of highest levels (i.e. the fact we can already go 250 lightyears away in a matter of days). So I don't expect you to understand.

see ya

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:++bwPeJe Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:16:09 No.444507860 Report

Quoted By:

>>444504729
I love it, this is what my children will read.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:17:11 No.444507998 Report

Quoted By: >>444508176

>>444507816
retard confirmed.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:17:22 No.444508021 Report

Quoted By: >>444508104 >>444508494 >>444508542

>>444507806
yep, you caught me, I'm a troll. /thread

I alrdy said inb4 stuff like what you said, so doesn't count

also, that is your own problem if you choose to not believe that which the most inquisitive minds in the world already believe.

and is it any wonder that the closest the most awesome minds of our time come to knowing everything, the more and more likely they are to become Christian?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:jmx13/6A Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:18:04 No.444508104 Report

Quoted By: >>444508793

>>444508021

well normaly im just lurking but u seem rather rational so i ask u this

i just dont believe in god
i heard it in the church and i thought its nonsense
i dont understand evolution and i probably never will
its just that the whole christianity thing seems litterally unbelievable to me

so whats with that?
wouldnt there be
i dont know something in the bible that made more sense if it were true?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:18:39 No.444508176 Report

Quoted By: >>444508514 >>444508919

>>444507998
yes, you are a retard. everyone saw that. You obviously have an IQ limited to "under" 110, so you probably are completely unaware of having the least bit of an idea what I am talking about.

I have a suggestion for you simpleton, go to google, and type in something like "the 11 dimensions explained"

dumbass

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:19:45 No.444508313 Report

Quoted By: >>444509345

>>444507816

>not aware of what he government already knows

And you are, Mr. Special?

Please explain to us how this FTL travel works and why no one knows about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:19:59 No.444508342 Report

Quoted By:

>>444507465
Who insulted you? I'm telling you why people are reacting to you the way they are. I think you need to take a nap.

>If I go outside and see that my car has been keyed and there are a couple kids running away from it with keys in their hands, I am using logic to come to the conclusion it was them.
This doesn't make any sense. Where does this analogy fit? The universe is not leaving a single trace of evidence to suggest that it was created by a sentient being.

Your degree doesn't give your opinion strength over anyone else's opinion because your field of science (if you're not bullshitting) hasn't even come close to discovering the existence of any extra-dimensional beings, let alone a God.

You're just blowing hot air. You continue to spout out, "look how smart I am, you should just trust me," without even bringing any semblance of proof with you. I don't believe you have a doctorate in anything. You don't know how to present your findings in the face of a scientific challenge. Your attitude sucks, and you don't know how to differentiate between a logically sound argument and a personal insult. I'm not going to assume anything about you or your life, but I guarantee you don't have a degree in anything remotely as advanced as you claim.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:IHXizugg Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:20:22 No.444508387 Report

Quoted By:

>>444501021
lol so le edgy xDD #SWAGGG

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:21:10 No.444508494 Report

Quoted By:

>>444508021

I did.

You are.

It does.

If you're referring to scientists.... then I already do believe what the most inquisitive minds believe: That there is no God.

And nope.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:bsneG5v8 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:21:16 No.444508514 Report

Quoted By:

>>444508176
thats not the retard part
>all I have to say before I go is that 99.9% of you are not aware of some of the most advanced ideas science has to offer, and you are certainly not aware of what the government already knows at the highest of highest levels (i.e. the fact we can already go 250 lightyears away in a matter of days). So I don't expect you to understand

if you can explain how we can travel 250 lighbt years in a matter of days then ill leave /b/ for the night

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8z7sngO0 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:21:30 No.444508542 Report

Quoted By:

>>444508021
>>444507465
>I said "inb4" so it doesn't count!
I can't believe the shit I'm reading.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:23:06 No.444508779 Report

Quoted By:

And from the foreknowledge of the perfect mind, through the revelation of the will of the invisible Spirit and the will of the Autogenes, <the> perfect Man (appeared), the first revelation, and the truth. It is he whom the virginal Spirit called Pigera-Adamas, and he placed him over the first aeon with the mighty one, the Autogenes, the Christ, by the first light Armozel; and with him are his powers. And the invisible one gave him a spiritual, invincible power. And he spoke and glorified and praised the invisible Spirit, saying, 'It is for thy sake that everything has come into being and everything will return to thee. I shall praise and glorify thee and the Autogenes and the aeons, the three: the Father, the Mother, and the Son, the perfect power.'

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:23:12 No.444508793 Report

Quoted By: >>444509346

>>444508104
You seem truly curious about it so I will help you out.

Go to a local church (not a catholic or baptist church) and go to the pastor and be like "please explain Christianity to me in a way that I can understand".

I can pretty much guarantee that he will be able to explain anything and everything you might have a question about it. He may not be the most intelligent person in the world, but he will know what he is talking about in the way of what lessons the Bible has to teach.

Also, google "bibles with explanations" or something. There are study bibles out there to help.

I wish there was a way that I could give you this info without advertising for my church. I wish I could give you my skype info so I could tell you about my personal stuff instead of doing what every Christian and their mother does and self-advertise without proper representation, but I can't because this is /b.

I hope I helped.

Sorry, you will be the last person I reply to because all I see is a bunch of trolls, ignorant fools who aren't up to date on science and still think they know what they are talking about, /b tards who are just so stubborn that they will never believe.

They will know soon enough. Trust me on this. Everyone will know very very soon. I wish I could let you guys know the things that I know... If only you could know, there would be no question anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:23:22 No.444508812 Report

Quoted By: >>444509251

>>444507619

My point is that we wouldn't know how to act even if he was sitting over our shoulder. We simply could not comprehend the expectations of such a creature, should he exist.

The Bible, if it ever was a holy book, has since been desecrated by old men who would call themselves "holy" but only strove to use something greater than themselves to gain power over us. For some reason I cannot fathom, most of humanity drank the fucking coolaid and so now we can't possibley know what the Bible was meant to say.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:olpees7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:24:04 No.444508919 Report

Quoted By:

>>444508176
So... every single impossibility exists in the eleventh dimension? Every single one?
So your God exists there. There's also a Super God that rapes yours in the ass, making him recite Shakespeare. There's an infinite amount of Super Gods that make your God recite an infinite amount of things while he's being raped in the ass; there's also an infinite amount of them while being raped in the mouth; and on every single possible and impossible hole.

As fun as this sounds, it sounds fucking retarded. I better go read about this 11th dimension to actually know the the fuck is going on.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:26:06 No.444509251 Report

Quoted By: >>444510498

>>444508812
And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:26:44 No.444509345 Report

Quoted By: >>444510498

>>444508313
ok, I will do this ONE last reply ONLY just because you seem so retarded I just refuse to believe that you are that dumb.

use google for 5 minutes. the technology and the schematics on how to achieve this technology and the science needed to explain how this would work is already available to the public. Google for 5 min, seriously, won't take longer than that.

also, I'm not mr. special. I suppose the part of the air force in which no one but the most intelligent and elite know about, we are kind of like a group of mr. specials, but I'm not getting into that.

Lol, what man, you seriously think that the government tells you everything? Also, let's just say they didn't know. If they found out about aliens or something like that, do you think they would even HINT that they know unless they are 100% broke financially? The human race isn't ready. The reason I say everyone WILL know, and I can guarantee this, is that we are literally about 95% broke right now. the government is gonna have to move to the private sector for this one, otherwise we are gonna lose everything. It WILL happen in the next 3-5 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:26:45 No.444509346 Report

Quoted By: >>444509504 >>444509645

>>444508793

>ignorant fools who aren't up to date on science.

Like the part where 99% of scientists are atheists?

You've yet to cite a single article or piece of research supporting any of the bullshit you've been spewing

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:8YAO2+qf Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:27:51 No.444509504 Report

Quoted By: >>444509624

>>444509346
Not my fault you can't google for 5 min. It's ok.

and no, you are quite incorrect on that one. it's more like 75% of all the topmost scientists in the world are moving toward believing in God because, once you get on their level, you realize how dumb atheism is.

goodbye

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:28:49 No.444509624 Report

Quoted By:

>>444509504

Bye. Nice trolling. It's been sort of entertaining.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:olpees7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:29:02 No.444509645 Report

Quoted By: >>444509960

>>444509346
93% as of 2006, brah.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:29:17 No.444509683 Report

Quoted By:

This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born. He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now. And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself. The name of the first one is Athoth, whom the generations call the reaper. The second one is Harmas, who is the eye of envy. The third one is Kalila-Oumbri. The fourth one is Yabel. The fifth one is Adonaiou, who is called Sabaoth. The sixth one is Cain, whom the generations of men call the sun. The seventh is Abel. The eighth is Abrisene. The ninth is Yobel. The tenth is Armoupieel. The eleventh is Melceir-Adonein. The twelfth is Belias, it is he who is over the depth of Hades. And he placed seven kings - each corresponding to the firmaments of heaven - over the seven heavens, and five over the depth of the abyss, that they may reign. And he shared his fire with them, but he did not send forth from the power of the light which he had taken from his mother, for he is ignorant darkness.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:31:25 No.444509960 Report

Quoted By: >>444510367

>>444509645

Pretty old statistic... but my bad regardless.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:34:29 No.444510362 Report

Quoted By:

More?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:olpees7W Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:34:29 No.444510367 Report

Quoted By: >>444510824

>>444509960
I know, but they don't make those everyday. Takes a while to ask all of them, you know. I really don't know if there's a more current one. But I do know that most religious scientists are Doctors; and they know for a fact that many pacients don't quite trust atheists... so there's that.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:35:24 No.444510498 Report

Quoted By: >>444511015

>>444509345

>only the government knows

>publicly available

You are an idiot.

>>444509251
What?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:++bwPeJe Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:37:03 No.444510709 Report

Quoted By: >>444510998

>>444506325
Religious nutbag with a wikipedia-level knowledge of scientific theory, or a troll with a pretty decent knowledge of the bible.

Anonymous

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Anonymous ID:cdAPlAXO Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:37:35 No.444510785 Report

Quoted By: >>444511153 >>444512702

If the multi-verse theory is correct, that would mean there are an infinite number of universes created by and occupied by God, and there would also be an infinite number of universes without the existence of God.

Huh.....

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:37:49 No.444510824 Report

Quoted By:

>>444510367

Makes sense. They're also the one's that would have the most reasonable desire to have something higher responsible over life and death to help ease their own conscience/guilt.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:++bwPeJe Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:39:01 No.444510989 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506381
Its actually canon that he was "not as good as he seemed" from what I understand. He also happens to look very Zeus/Jupiter/Odin/Yahweh look.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:x4tMBJ/3 Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:39:05 No.444510998 Report

Quoted By:

>>444510709
The latter, of course.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:39:13 No.444511015 Report

Quoted By: >>444511406

>>444510498
Its part of the scriptures omitted by constantine

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:40:15 No.444511153 Report

Quoted By:

>>444510785

And and infinite number of deistic "clockmaker" style universes set up by, and later abandoned by their God.

Dun dun dunnnn...

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:4llQBLS+ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:42:06 No.444511406 Report

Quoted By: >>444511801

>>444511015

Ahhhh thanks.

By the way, I blame Constantine for all the world's problems. His actions led to the ruination of both the Roman Empire and Christianity. I hate that cunt.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:XUshpZUQ Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:44:54 No.444511801 Report

Quoted By:

>>444511406
Welp he's dead so you win

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:51:30 No.444512702 Report

Quoted By: >>444513863

>>444510785
Exactly.

Anything and everything is possible, especially when the laws of physics are manipulated, or replaced with something else entirely.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:76NKUnNm Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:55:36 No.444513306 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506894
Honest question, what is the need for God, in creating us.
I mean, who is he? where is he caught? what encourages him to the creation of beings to worship him? pheraps does he need to be worshiped? Why? being omniscient, he already knows what choices we gonna pick in life, why is the need to test us, if he could simply create us as perfects beings? he is all-powerfull, he can do that; but if he can't that means that things we "know" about him aren't really true. does he not want to create perfect beings? why? is he afraid of something? does he have emotions? having emotions do not leave a path to fall in things like pride, or anger, basicaly capital sins? i believe most religions worships human created gods, by that, i mean, imperfect beings, created by the mind of other imperfect beings. leaving religions at the tier of control tools. but certainly, something is out there, probably something that never showed itself, never will, and probably we will hardly understand at some point.

tl;dr religions are a lie, but sure as fuck there is something there not worthing to being worshiped

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 21:58:49 No.444513863 Report

Quoted By: >>444515153 >>444517045

>>444512702

Well, not necessarily.

If the multiverse is simply an amalgam of all the things that can exist, that still doesn't define what can and can not exist.

Potentially God does not exist and can not exist.

So potentially... no matter how many universes... there could be no God.

If you want to say "Well... everything is possible." Then that is a bit of a paradox.

I would respond "Then the multiverse with no gods is possible."

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:08:11 No.444515153 Report

Quoted By: >>444516356

>>444513863
I'm actually betting on humans or some other sentient life forms retroactively creating their own universe either directly or indirectly at any point of time, or that life simply continues a chain of causality of universal creation and the perpetuation of existence.

"God" is irrelevant, but it's possible that a "God" being is a super-organism created by the combined knowledge of an entire species's accomplishments.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:15:48 No.444516356 Report

Quoted By: >>444518308

>>444515153

I'm down with retroactive causality cycles. Let's get working on that.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Llwi1ppS Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:17:05 No.444516536 Report

Quoted By:

>>444506325

I'd just like to point out that over time, when something couldn't be explained through science there were people who claimed it was god and those who say a science we don't understand. Each time the latter is proven. God exists on a premise of absence, the more we learn the less god seems feasible. Also you speak as though our laws of physics an mathematics are absolute, they aren't. Just recently a black hole was discovered which is far too large to exist according to conventional laws of physics. Gravity can't even be proven to exist yet but we have it as a concept and that is more than we had centuries ago.

>tl;dr science will inevitably explain anything we cannot yet. It always has and it always will. Evolution could have happened without outside intervention, life is pretty dynamic.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:iXmFkZWD Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:19:11 No.444516824 Report

Quoted By:

>>444507756

...Tree of Knowledge or some shit, maybe?

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Lg/5ugIn Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:20:45 No.444517045 Report

Quoted By: >>444518607

>>444513863

There exist a multitude of universes,I asked god what is the point of it all. How could i go on helping anyone if they just die in another universe?He told me a story

While walking along a beach, an elderly gentleman saw someone in the distance leaning down, picking something up and throwing it into the ocean.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, picking up starfish one by one and tossing each one gently back into the water.

He came closer still and called out, “Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?”

The young man paused, looked up, and replied “Throwing starfish into the ocean.”

The old man smiled, and said, “I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?”

To this, the young man replied, “The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them in, they’ll die.”

Upon hearing this, the elderly observer commented, “But, young man, do you not realise that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can’t possibly make a difference!”

The young man listened politely. Then he bent down, picked up another starfish, threw it into the back into the ocean past the breaking waves and said, “It made a difference for that one.”

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:29:37 No.444518308 Report

Quoted By: >>444520056

>>444516356
I've thought about infinity extensively, it seems only natural that infinity would have to bend back into itself at some point, most likely after every possibility is carried out, but not necessarily.

The order of cause and effect on a truly universal scale would be so massive it would look to be a jumbled mess with the past present and future existing both simultaneously and sporadically.

I'm trying to keep as open a mind as possible, but the potential for just about anything to exist is... beautiful.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:X2mpurFV Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:30:28 No.444518404 Report

Quoted By: >>444518914

Milton
Paradise Lost

Satan is a heady rebel who is portrayed with a lot of sympathy to his cause

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:32:03 No.444518607 Report

Quoted By:

>>444517045

Then the old man stabbed the young man in the face... as he was want to do at this particular time in this particular universe

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:34:21 No.444518914 Report

Quoted By:

>>444518404
Welcome to two hours ago, /b/ro (>>444501456)

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:42:08 No.444520056 Report

Quoted By: >>444521486

>>444518308

A friend of mine wrote a short story in middle school that sort of introduced me to this concept.

The basic idea was that man had calculated the demise of the universe... and in an attempt to find some way to extend its life, compiled all of their resources into a supercomputer designated with the task of figuring out how to continue existence.

They fail.

The universe collapses on itself and everything is destroyed... except the computer. which continues to crunch numbers for infinity (or absence thereof) until ultimately it concludes: "Let there be light."

Have you ever read the Dark Tower? It touches on some of this as well. It was the first thing that brought my attention to the idea that infinity does not just expand outward... but inward. There is infinite smallness as well. yadda yadda etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:51:29 No.444521486 Report

Quoted By: >>444523243

>>444520056

Ah, "The Last Question" by Asimov.
I haven't read it, but the thought was intriguing, and basically the same as what I've concluded but on a more local and smaller scale.

I have not, but I will look into Dark Tower, although the existence of infinite smallness doesn't get as much attention as infinite largeness.

That's what stumped Steven Hawking who, after experiencing much self conflicting calculations, conceded that matter is not destroyed when it enters a black hole, rather it is taken somewhere outside of the universe.

Following that, there is an idea that black holes spawn other universes, and that the universe itself is a living organism which is successful based on the number of black holes it can produce, possibly passing on its successful physical law traits to its "offspring".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jIeHsefCPk

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:msBvtmfG Tue 18 Dec 2012 22:54:35 No.444521982 Report

Quoted By:

>>444507421
Free will.. I think that in nature which could be gods creation or scientific theory there is one common conception and that is cause and effect, which is fact and happens around all you all the time regardless of what you believe or dont believe. Cause and effect are only real because you could not have it with out having linear time. Cause and effect are two opposite forces in nature, like fate and choice. Fate you're heading down the same direction on a motorway/highway but choice is what lane you're in. Everything can be right, and everything can be wrong, our understanding of the centre of what is right and what is wrong, the centre of fate or free will. Cause and effect is in everything that is created, everything has an equal opposite. Male n Female, God n Devil, Nail and Hammer, Love and Hate, Push n Shove. Every mathematical equation ever devised as an opposite equation. Just food for thought on this thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:/vH2vq7g Tue 18 Dec 2012 23:02:51 No.444523243 Report

Quoted By: >>444525143

>>444521486

I wasn't aware it was an actual story. Just read the synopsis... My friend heavily plagiarized this, passed it off as his own idea, and I have believed him for two decades. Thanks.

I am really fond of the natural selection via black holes idea. I want it to be true very badly... but it's almost too good.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:HfZS2zSH Tue 18 Dec 2012 23:08:07 No.444524036 Report

Quoted By:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw

many of the things demonized are things that would help us wake up.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:mJ1aPQYX Tue 18 Dec 2012 23:14:58 No.444525143 Report

Quoted By:

>>444523243

Woops.. I'm still waking up and didn't take it that your friend said it was /his/ story.

It should be a great read, Asimov is one of the best of the best science fiction writers, when I read the synopsis after first hearing of it the story seems.. plausible.

The black hole birthing universal offspring idea is excellent, but you're right, it's just about too good to be true.

It's likely that they create "white holes" where matter can only be ejected and nothing can ever enter them. ...where the matter is ejected on the other hand only seems to be a sort of big bang from a singularity to me, possibly all of the matter being ejected at once since time becomes irrelevant in that instance.

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