/k/ - Weapons » Thread #8776890

[28 / 5 / ?]

94KiB, 876x388, unknown.jpg

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:34:00 No.8776890 View View Reply Original Report

/k/, why do so many people write off .32 ACP as insufficient for self defense? It's been around for 100+ years now and saw a lot of use, only recently have shooters began to call it crap.

Even shitty Hydra Shoks get 10" of penetration out of a tiny P32 and expand to 0.4". I'd say that's more than adequate, wouldn't you? Couple that with ultra-concealable handguns and low recoil and IMO it's a winner in the CC category.

Anyone agree with me on this?

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8 Sun 01 May 2011 04:35:00 No.8776901 Report

Quoted By: >>8776931 >>8776945

>>8776890
If Vasili Blodkin set an execution endurance record with 1 shot each with a .25acp and killed 7,000 people in a week I'd say that .32 acp is more than enough for your execution needs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:41:00 No.8776931 Report

Quoted By: >>8776946 >>8776967 >>8777010

>>8776901
shooting people in the head =/= self defense

>>8776890
Sure. Just make sure to only get into lethal force altercations where you have a clear, unobstructed, head on shot at your attackers vitals, and that he doesn't have a rib cage

12" is the minimum penetration for a defensive cartridge.
That doesn't mean that less than 12" is non lethal, it just means that its poorly suited for self defense or duty use.

Why can't you retards understand this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:43:00 No.8776945 Report

Quoted By: >>8776951

>>8776901
on Wikipedia his name is spelled
Vasili Mikhailovich Blokhin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blokhin

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8 Sun 01 May 2011 04:44:00 No.8776946 Report

Quoted By: >>8776971

>>8776931
>shooting people in the head =/= self defense
Disagree. .380 and smaller should be head shots only.

Come on, the average gunfight is less than 10 feet.

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8 Sun 01 May 2011 04:44:00 No.8776951 Report

Quoted By:

>>8776945
That guy was damn hard, huh?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:47:00 No.8776967 Report

Quoted By: >>8776971 >>8776986 >>8776987 >>8777010

>>8776931
>FBI's magic 12" line
Seriously why do all you faggots take this as gospel? Nevermind that ballistic gel doesn't faithfully replicate human tissue, why is 12" the minimum? It's an arbitrary fucking number the FBI decided on right around the same time they started blaming 9x19mm for their own agents' incompetence.

PRO TIP: the average human torso is not fucking 12" chest to back unless you're talking about some morbidly obese circus freak. That fucking number doesnt even apply to shoot someone in the SIDE because you don't need to go through the whole fucking torso to hit something vital.

And in b4 HURR DURR CLOTHING. Another tip: human muscle is a hole lot tougher than denim or fucking cloth. Apart from (sometimes) clogging up JHPs clothing barely does shit to incoming bullets.

.32 ACP killed a fuckton of people in the early 1900s and still is killing people today. European cops carried it for god knows how long and used it with great effectiveness.

God dammit I hate when people jump onto the "it worked for 100 years but it magically started sucking now" bandwagon.

.32 ACP, .380 ACP, .38 Special and a fuckton of other cartridges still work. Just because they're old doesn't mean they don't kill people dead anymore.

Fuck.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 231KiB, 738x1046

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:49:00 No.8776971 Report

Quoted By: >>8776987

>>8776946
>has never fired a handgun
If you think that you can shoot someone in the head instantly in a self defense shooting you need to get the fuck out and go back to COD

>>8776967
>newfag proving how new he is
>It's an arbitrary fucking number the FBI decided on
NOPE
try harder, newfag

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:52:00 No.8776986 Report

Quoted By: >>8776991 >>8777010

>>8776967
PRO TIP: The torso depth of the average US soldier is 10". Depths of 13" are normal for US citizens.
And yes ballistics gel DOES replicated consistency of the body over all. This has been proven time and time again with data from autopsies

You're so butthurt its unbelievable

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8 Sun 01 May 2011 04:52:00 No.8776987 Report

Quoted By: >>8777010 >>8777030 >>8777036

>>8776967HURR DURR CLOTHING
Where can I buy some of that? You know, so I don't walk around outside with my derp hanging out.

>>8776971If you think that you can shoot someone in the head instantly in a self defense shooting you need to get the fuck out and go back to COD
My practice drill with my .380 is round chambered, hammer down. Draw, double tap a soda can at 15 yards, hit the decocker, reholster. Wash, rinse, repeat. The cycle takes about 3-5 second (5 if my IWB collapses and I don't get the reholster smoothly.)

I'm pretty sure I could headshot at 5 feet, bro. Perhaps you're basing your statement on your own lack of skill?

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8

fucking rainbow king of dick suck land !!DDm5Y17CuD8 Sun 01 May 2011 04:53:00 No.8776991 Report

Quoted By:

>>8776986
>Depths of 23" are normal for /k/ posters

ftfy, couldn't resist. :)

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 116KiB, 1600x1200

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:56:00 No.8777010 Report

Quoted By: >>8777084

>>8776967
>>8776931
>>8776986
>>8776987
And my thread is already fagged up. Thanks a lot, asshats.

Pic unrelated. Anyone know where to find an S&W 39 "Asp"? I've wanted one of these for like 10 years but can't find them anywhere. I know they're out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:59:00 No.8777030 Report

Quoted By:

>>8776987
> Perhaps you're basing your statement on your own lack of skill?
Try reality, CODfag

The highest hit percentage of any police department is less than 50% in OIS incidents.
The FBI has a published statistic that only 20% of shots made in self defense hit their intended target and that number is in line with what the majority of police departments have for their OIS incidents.

Adrenaline fucks with your fine motor control, breathing, vision, hearing, all of your sense. Standing still on a calm shooting range is absolutely nothing like shooting in a high stress situation. And I know for a fact that you've never done anything even remotely close to running an IDPA course in the entirety of your shitty existence. You have absolutely no training yet you think you're magically going to react better then people with years of training? Get real, faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:00:00 No.8777036 Report

Quoted By: >>8777209

>>8776987
>I'm pretty sure I could headshot at 5 feet, bro

>hurr durr I'll never lose accuracy due to stress if I'm involved in a defensive shooting cause I'm just that good

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:06:00 No.8777084 Report

Quoted By: >>8777108

>>8777010
>And my thread is already fagged up.
OP, here's the deal. In my mind, for your primary weapon you should choose the biggest caliber that you can shoot well. If you need to go to a smaller caliber for other situations, then that's what you need to do.

If you're a 250-pound man living in a cool climate who can easily conceal a Glock 20, there's no reason for you to carry a .22 derringer as your primary weapon. However, if you can't wear good concealment garments that day (maybe you're going to a wedding?), then you might need a smaller pistol in order for it to remain concealed. Then you may have to sacrifice caliber for the sake of concealment.

Of course, for very small and physically weak people, 9mm may even be out of the question as their primary caliber. For them, calibers like .32ACP and .22LR may have to be their primary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:10:00 No.8777108 Report

Quoted By: >>8777148 >>8777226

>>8777084
I'm well aware of that rule and I don't plan on carrying a .32 as my main carry weapon. My point was that it isn't completely useless and is a great choice for deep concealment. I see a lot of women carrying .32s because they're easy to handle and you can fit them just about anywhere.

For the record I carry a 3" .357 Mag.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:11:00 No.8777119 Report

Quoted By:

Welcome to the internet. You need to learn that most people talking about guns, don't actually have any guns. Many have never even fired a gun before. Combine this with the band wagon effect of the internet, and you have a recipe for complete stupidity.

I have both a .25 and .32. They are both good guns, and at less than 10ft, they are very good self defense guns.

I definitely wouldn't go walking through the ghetto at night with one, but for a quick errand, they are perfect. If I were going on a trip or in a bad area, I would take my revolver or 9mm.

/k/ just thinks that unless you're using .45, you're attacker just regenerates his health and keeps coming at you.

I can actually draw the .25, and keep it concealed with my hand without the other person noticing. The .32 is very light and easy to carry.

I would like to see someone take 9 rounds of .32 jhp and keep running at you.

All guns are useful, some are just good for specific situations.

Zed !RW2kCRRAXg

Zed !RW2kCRRAXg Sun 01 May 2011 05:13:00 No.8777133 Report

Quoted By: >>8777197 >>8777226

Rather than .32, why not just .22LR, spend 1/10th the money on a firearm and ammunition, and still have the same approximate penetration and self-defense effectiveness?

Or, if you must .32, why not .380 instead?

Anonymous

deal with it

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:15:00 No.8777146 Report

Quoted By: >>8777157

The important question to be asked, of course, is: What makes a good self-defense load?

The answer to that question is that ammo should meet the FBI's requirement of:
1) at least 12" of penetration in properly prepared ballistic gelatin/soft tissue, and
2) expand to the largest diameter possible in order to cause the largest possible wound.

While some people question the 12" penetration limit, it is not subject to discussion in this article. The FBI is deemed to be more knowledgeable than most, and it is backed up my Dr. Martin Fackler and others who have spent their life discussing the subject. Duncan McPherson, in his book "Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma" actually argues that 15" is not an unrealistic requirement a bullet should obtain. He does point out, however, that 11.5" of penetration shouldn't completely disqualify a bullet from being acceptable either. While 12" should be a minimum requirement, 18" is the approximate maximum desired penetration depth. Beyond that, and the bullet is likely to exit the intended target and retain enough energy to cause others harm if a person should be in the line of fire. Obviously you should never take the shot if you're not sure of what's beyond your target and rely on your ammunition to do your job of being prudent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:15:00 No.8777148 Report

Quoted By:

>>8777108
Yeah, that all sounds reasonable.

To answer your initial question though: .32ACP is considered insufficient for self defense purely because it doesn't cause that much damage to the body without good shot placement. Enough people have been shot with the caliber to compile statistics, and it's just not effective enough to be reliable. If you're able to carry something more effective, you should. However, carrying a .32 is better than carrying no firearm at all.

I think Oleg Volk called the P32 "A gun you can carry when you can't carry a gun."

Anonymous

neckbeard retards think they know better than trained experts

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:16:00 No.8777153 Report

Quoted By:

I will briefly point out that the 12" penetration requirement stems from the fact that not all shots are frontal-torso shots. Many times the bullet must penetrate significantly more tissue, such as when the person being shot has his arms extended in front of him, if the shot is at an oblique angle, etc. You choose ammunition based on a worst-case scenario, not the best.

"But," you say, "there's no way it's THAT important to have a bullet that's only marginally better than my favorite load." That may be well and true. I know you're not planning on missing, and that you figure you'll be able to put a couple of shots center-of-mass with no problems. Don't overestimate your ability when the lead starts flying. There won't be a perfect Weaver stance involved, trigger discipline will go to hell, and carefully aimed shots will be non-existent. How many times have you seen shootouts on "Cops" where they're 2 yards apart, shoot a bunch of times, and yet every shot manages to miss?

Not only that, but hitting the VITAL area of your target is exceedingly difficult. The best case scenario - a full-frontal torso shot - is "easy". The problem is that as the angle of the attacker change, the point of aim has to vary considerably in order to hit the vital structures. For a brief explanation, look at this figure that shows shots that all hit the center of the chest, but none of which bring the bullet path into contact with the vital structures in the thoracic cavity:

Zed !RW2kCRRAXg

Zed !RW2kCRRAXg Sun 01 May 2011 05:17:00 No.8777157 Report

Quoted By:

>>8777146
Stop being reasonable and logical in my /k/! The road to ruin it is!

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 146KiB, 600x600

OP is a cock sucking fag and can't handle the truth

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:21:00 No.8777185 Report

Quoted By: >>8777226

That picture was taken from a thread by OddJob (his nick on TacticalForums and The FiringLine). He is a radiographer from South Africa and has written an excellent article on the subject hosted at BrassFetcher.com. Please read that article for more information on the subject.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/OJ%20gunshot%20thread.pdf

You plan for a worst case scenario, and that's why it's best to choose a bullet that will put the maximum advantage in your corner.

THAT BEING SAID, KEEP IN MIND THAT BULLET PERFORMANCE IS MEASURED IN SHADES OF GRAY, NOT BLACK AND WHITE. THE AMMUNITION RECOMMENDATIONS HERE ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CURRENT STATE OF THE ART, WHICH DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY'RE THE ONLY CHOICES - ONLY WHAT IS CURRENTLY DEEMED BEST. You are, of course, free to choose any ammo you want, but there are sound reasons for why some ammo types are recommended over others. These recommendations aren't my own; rather, they have been advanced by the foremost experts in the field. You can choose to disagree with their findings, but don't expect anyone to give you much credence unless you have some serious credentials and proof to back up your claim.

There are several articles written by Dr. Fackler available in the Ammo FAQ, such as The ideal police bullet. As a matter of fact, the article essentially points out exactly what the requirements are and validate the claims that 12" of penetration in conjunction with a large wound channel are what is required of a good bullet.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/AR15_Ammo_FAQnRules/index.htm
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/ideal_police_bullet.pdf

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 72KiB, 466x462

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:23:00 No.8777197 Report

Quoted By:

>>8777133
>implying .22 LR is just as effective as .32 ACP
Are you high?

Anonymous

None of you tards will ever be more knowledgeable than DocGKR

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:24:00 No.8777199 Report

Quoted By:

Read the rest here and educate yourself, but if you haven't read this already you're nothing buy a armchair neckbeard with diarrhea of the mouth
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:24:00 No.8777209 Report

Quoted By: >>8777248

>>8777036

When you're stressed, you rely on instinct. This guy practices drills intended for self defense situations, or so he claims.

It is reasonable to believe, if he's not just throwing e-stats out there, that he can do as he says. The reason most people panic when they're in self-defense situations is because they haven't been trained and lack the proper muscle memory to perform complex actions, such as fighting or pulling a gun and shooting accurately, but if that muscle memory is in place, then it more or less bypasses the anxiety center of your brain and goes straight through to the muscles.

What he said is plausible, and for you to say that is isn't just makes you look ignorant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:26:00 No.8777226 Report

Quoted By: >>8777248

>>8777185
>OP asks a legit question
>is a cock sucking fag
Seems like he took the info in stride.

>>8777108
He semi-agreed right here. I see his point.

>>8777133
>.22
>.32
>same shit
lolwat

Anonymous

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:31:00 No.8777248 Report

Quoted By:

>>8777209
>When you're stressed, you rely on instinct

When you're stressed you rely on adrenaline and your fight or flight response while you have next to no fine motor control. The improbability of the situation is magnified given the fact that there is only a slim chance of you facing your attacker head on allowing for a clean unobstructed frontal shot.
For you to assume that what hes saying is plausible shows how ignorant YOU are

>>8777226
>OP asks a legit question
OP made the presumption that .32acp WAS suitable for self defense with a loaded question
He is a total dumbshit

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches