/p/ - Photography » Thread #292332

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M8 FAIL

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 13:46:00 No.292332 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>292748

Hey /p/.
If any of you are planning to adquire a M8, you should read the following article before.
It's written by a photojournalist, a war photographer, who used the M8 on the battlefield of Irak.
The issues he exposes are a huge FAIL for Leica.
Can any M8fag agree with what he says?
You should read it. Go go go!
http://web.mac.com/kamberm/Leica_M8_Field_Test,_Iraq/Page_1.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 13:55:00 No.292333 Report

Quoted By: >>292335

We've already had this thread over 9000 times. Lurk moar.

Also, half this shit is fixed with the new firmware.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:00:00 No.292334 Report

Quoted By: >>292337 >>292350

OP is FAIL

Leica released an 8.2 and they are releasing a DSLR soon

you think their first digital rangefinder would be perfect? it took time for the M system to develop but you cant find a better film rangefinder than a Leica M

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:01:00 No.292335 Report

Quoted By:

>>292333
Is _all_ of this shit fixed with the new firmware?
Like the silly fact that you must remove the baseplate to change the SD card, and the not recessed buttons? also the not ergonomic way (through several menu steps) to change some basic configuration like the ISO...?
White balance and exposition control issues can be fixed on new firmware but I think M8 still is a fail compared to R-D1, for example, on ergonomics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:03:00 No.292337 Report

Quoted By:

>>292334
film leicas are superb quality, specially M3, M4P and M6.
With M8, Leica put a casio inside a rolex body.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:08:00 No.292338 Report

Quoted By: >>292339

Leica knows it needs to shape up or its kaput and if youve read any of the recent interviews with the CEO he is trying to turn Leica away from a luxury company and steer it back into the professional market

I have high hopes that the M9 (when released) will be a worthwhile investment

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:15:00 No.292339 Report

Quoted By: >>292696

>>292338
Maybe the global crisis pushed him to say this or even to consider it.
I think that M9 if it's ever released will be also expensive: the "low-cost" market is on their p&s cameras.
The general public does not know anything about a rangefinder camera. When I show how my Bessa R works to my friends they tell me what I'm doing with that crap. So the possible M9 will be kept high priced only for a minority. More than M8 has been.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:23:00 No.292341 Report

Quoted By:

It's well known that Leica have had financial problems and suffered under management problems. We've yet to see them ride this all out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:28:00 No.292345 Report

Quoted By: >>292350

http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/22/leica-debuts-s-system-37-megapixel-flagship-s2-camera/

$_$

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:36:00 No.292350 Report

Quoted By: >>292658 >>292687

>>292345
We are talking about the rangefinder type cameras. It's OK that Leica beats them all with this new DSLR. Also the R8 and R9 are great cameras even with the digital back pack.
>>292334
the first digital rangefinder from Epson was far away more well designed than M8. Why did not Leica beat that camera?

Serenar !m827jEgWi.

Serenar !m827jEgWi. Thu 13 Nov 2008 00:26:00 No.292658 Report

Quoted By:

>>292350
I realize the M8 is rather flawed but it's a little unreasonable to be jizzing all over the RD-1 too. The ergonomics are starting to bug me more and more - the shutter speed wheel is just a bit too stiff (and strangely placed) for using while your right hand is in shooting position, the shutter button gets stuck every so often (had to take it to a shop to get that fixed), and there are several other minor things that make me wonder why it was designed the way it was that I can't quite think of at the moment. Oh wait I just remembered another, there's no reason to make a lock to keep the thing in Av if it means that dialing in exposure compensation requires taking your hand off the release.

I suppose it just comes down to that shutter knob really - reasonably affordable well adjusted ones have been done before (see Nikon FM2). Half the time I'm in aperture priority because switching speeds is such a pain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 00:57:00 No.292687 Report

Quoted By:

>>292350
>the first digital rangefinder from Epson was far away more well designed than M8

Hey, let's not go that far. The R-D1 also had enough design annoyances (and you don't even have to be working in Iraq to be bothered by them) and inferior image quality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:07:00 No.292696 Report

Quoted By: >>292700

>>292339
>The general public does not know anything about a rangefinder camera. When I show how my Bessa R works to my friends they tell me what I'm doing with that crap.

Well, let's face it, the technology of the rangefinders became too outdated and limiting to be sold to the public as it is. If there's anything with the potential to be popular, it's a combined rangefinder/live view camera with electronic rather than mechanical RF linkage and a new range of autofocusing lenses.
And if you think about it, Leica can make that right away if they collaborate with Panasonic a little more - all technologies are already there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:12:00 No.292700 Report

Quoted By: >>292707 >>292710

>>292696
>with electronic rather than mechanical RF linkage

Why? It'll just lose coupling for the RF with all the old M-mount lenses. Nikon's updating of the F-mount shows its perfectly possible to incorporate both electronic features and mechanical linkage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:24:00 No.292707 Report

Quoted By: >>292719

>>292700
Then either all new AF lenses should have this mechanism as well (and that's a damn complex piece of precise mechanics, both in the lens and in the body, even without AF), or the camera must have a way of switching between mechanical and electronic modes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:33:00 No.292710 Report

Quoted By: >>292719

>>292700
Most of M-mount lenses are OVER 9000, we're talking about a mass-produced, affordable camera here. If anyone wants to use a M-mount lens, just give him an adapter and magnified live view.

fence !!POey2hdozCZ

fence !!POey2hdozCZ Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:43:00 No.292717 Report

Quoted By: >>292921

wait, you have an r-d1, serenar? where the fuck are all of your photos?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 01:46:00 No.292719 Report

Quoted By: >>292742

>>292710
New, yeah, but used there's affordable M lenses out there.

Adapter and magnified live view is for cameras like the G1, which is very good but not the ideal: a rangefinder capable of precise TTL framing when desired/preferred/needed. Have an EVF go in the shoe like on some Ricoh cameras.

>>292707
Just take the M mount, add appropriate electrical contacts for the contrast detect AF lenses, and keep the mechanical linkages there for compatibility with the old lenses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 02:02:00 No.292729 Report

Quoted By:

Easier said than done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 02:05:00 No.292733 Report

Quoted By:

>keep the mechanical linkages
That's the expensive part. Have you ever seen cutouts or schematics of those rangefinders? They have dozens of little pins and cams and levers inside them, all of which must be made with great precision. It may actually be simpler to put some kind of sensor to register the position of the lens cam and relay it to the electric-driven rangefinder (this will also allow to easily compensate for backfocusing/frontfocusing issues which are a pain for less precise rangefinder cameras and lenses)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 02:14:00 No.292742 Report

Quoted By: >>292921

>>292719
>but used there's affordable M lenses out there

Like manufacturers ever care about the used market. If anything, it hurts their new lens sales (though may initially boost camera sales). And if Leica decides to go mainstream with AF and shit, I believe supporting old lenses wouldn't be a big concern for them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 02:20:00 No.292748 Report

Quoted By:

>>292332

>>"made in a mac"

fuck it.

Serenar !m827jEgWi.

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO unknown.jpg, 0B, 0x0

Serenar !m827jEgWi. Thu 13 Nov 2008 06:55:00 No.292921 Report

Quoted By:

>>292717
Ahahahahaha I thought everyone knew this. I don't like posting photos here, but here you go I guess. My card reader just died on me though.

>>292742
Yeah, there's no good business reason for any company not currently making M-mount lenses to make an M-mount camera. It's like not selling shoelaces with your shoes, except here the shoelaces are sometimes worth more than the shoe and people buy tons of them.

11Equipment MakeSEIKO EPSON CORP.Camera ModelR-D1sCamera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS3 Windows111Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution240 dpiVertical Resolution240 dpiImage Created2008:08:01 23:44:18Exposure Time1/150 secExposure ProgramAperture PriorityISO Speed Rating1600Exposure Bias0.7 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash FunctionColor Space InformationUncalibratedImage Width752Image Height500RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardGain ControlHigh Gain Up1

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 07:50:00 No.292954 Report

Quoted By: >>292958

If only leica would co-operate with pani.

Serenar !m827jEgWi.

Serenar !m827jEgWi. Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:13:00 No.292958 Report

Quoted By:

>>292954
Curiously, even the shittiest Panasonic P&Ses have "Leica" lenses, but not the G1. Perhaps the deal fell through recently?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 08:16:00 No.292960 Report

Quoted By:

the new DSLR being released will dominate everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 13 Nov 2008 09:16:00 No.292990 Report

Quoted By: >>293001

so basically the old "workhorse" leica has been reduced to a hobbyists prestige purchase... which sucks for Leica, but pretty much opens the door for some other rangefinder/p&s camera to step in and you don't have to waste $10,000 on a name.

Doesn't surprise me that they've fucked up a classic. Maybe next time he'll actually test a camera before he buys it. And, btw, I never see photojournalists shoot Leicas anymore. I get having a manual/film camera in warzones, because you need to keep shooting even if you can't recharge batteries. So just stick with an m6 and get on with it.

Serenar !m827jEgWi.

Serenar !m827jEgWi. Thu 13 Nov 2008 09:53:00 No.293001 Report

Quoted By:

>>292990
Of course you can't just blame Leica for this type of development - any sort of RF (or film camera) is increasingly inappropriate for the kind of work that the average newspaper shooter needs to do.

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