/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #3949315

[96 / 10 / ?]

Intelligence and religiosity thread.

Anonymous !NKCqu160yw Tue 25 Oct 2011 03:58:00 No.3949315 View View Reply Original Report

The following studies were posted in a thread admonishing atheists. The OP apparently became buttmad at the scientific consensus that atheists are smarter on average than theists using every metric for intelligence available, so he deleted the thread.

Someone also asked for more recent studies. I'll post those first, just for you, followed by the century's worth of older studies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14765500/Average-intelligence-predicts-atheism-rates-across-137-nations-Ly
nn-et-al

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-26/health/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence_1_sexual-behaviors-libe
ralism-exclusivity?_s=PM:HEALTH

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 10:57:00 No.3950773 Report

Quoted By:

>>3950741
that wasn't even my point.

im arguing the results are based more on social conditioning than intelligence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 13:57:00 No.3951047 Report

Quoted By: >>3951057

I'm an agnostic nihilist

I win.

/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:08:00 No.3951057 Report

Quoted By: >>3951071

>>3951047
Im atheist. According to this study im smarter then you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:18:00 No.3951068 Report

Quoted By:

>atheists are smarter than theists
>atheists rave

>whites are smarter than blacks
>RACIS' BIGOT

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:18:00 No.3951070 Report

Quoted By: >>3951120

But then why are geniuses born to non-geniuses?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:19:00 No.3951071 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951057
smart person should know study doesn't say that

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:20:00 No.3951073 Report

Quoted By:

But bayes law isn't like the law of gravity.

Gravity fucking exists, bayes law is just some psychological bullshit that most likely isn't true like law the of gravity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:21:00 No.3951075 Report

Quoted By:

People who believe something without any evidence supporting their belief are morons. Why is this still a topic of debate?

Anyone who prides themselves on how the lack of evidence supporting their spiritual beliefs is obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed. Lets move on. If the idiots don't want to see the light, then fuck them! Lets leave them here on their precious earth while we explore the rest of the galaxy/universe.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1319170040175.jpg, 300KiB, 800x742

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:40:00 No.3951094 Report

Quoted By: >>3951110

Carl Sagan Says:
"If the general picture, however, of a big bang followed by an expanding universe is correct what happened before that? Was the universe devoid of all matter and then the matter suddenly somehow created? How did that happen?

In many cultures, the customary answer is that a god or gods created the universe out of nothing. But if we wish to pursue this question courageously we must, of course, ask the next question: Where did God come from?

If we decide that this is an unanswerable question, why not save a step and conclude, that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or if we say that God always existed why not save a step and conclude that the universe always existed? There's no need for a creation. It was always here."

Atheist: Epic Win
Agnostics and religious: Epic Fail

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:50:00 No.3951108 Report

Quoted By:

>But then why are geniuses born to non-geniuses?
This is an interesting topic actually. This fact actually is more evidence for intelligence being a genetic trait. Geniuses can come from non-geniuses because they just happened to inheret the right combination of both of their parents high intelligence genes. Conversely, non-geniuses are born to geniuses. On a group/population level this would be described as regression toward the mean. Every group has a mean IQ. For whites it's 100, Northeast Asians 106, Ashkenazi Jews 112-115, African-Americans 85. For parents who are above average, their children generally are born less smart than them. For parents who are below average, their children generally are born smarter than them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 14:53:00 No.3951110 Report

Quoted By: >>3951147

>>3951094
because of the "if"s, sagan's position is agnostic. that is, it doesn't give answers, just possibilities

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:00:00 No.3951117 Report

Quoted By:

Thanks OP, you've saved me the time of looking this up myself. Was gonna do it at some point anyway, but you've saved me the trouble.

Bare love for you (no homo)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:06:00 No.3951120 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951070
You pretty much have to hit the jackpot combination of genes to have a genius child. That's also why geniuses rarely have genius children.

Stupid people have pretty much all their cards scrambled and it's not probable that their children have the right combination. Smarter parents are closer to it, but the closes the cards are to perfection the more likely it is that the result is worse when spliced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:08:00 No.3951123 Report

Quoted By:

>Atheists and agnostics: Epic Win
>Religious: Epic Fail

ftfy, imbecile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:28:00 No.3951139 Report

Quoted By: >>3951146

haha i get it. the reason that people go on about "durr iq doesn't measure anything" and "hurr intelligence doesn't even exist" is because IQ will ALWAYS reveal racial gaps! mind blowing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:34:00 No.3951144 Report

Quoted By: >>3951151

I hope you athiests are ready to admit that blacks are dumber than average. Oh wait you can't because most of you are liberal hypocrites.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:35:00 No.3951146 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951139

This thread is about religion and intelligence, not race and intelligence. You can go make your own thread for that topic but please don't derail this one. It seems like literally every thread is eventually derailed by someone who only wants to talk about stormfront type stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:35:00 No.3951147 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951110

No, the "if" open the way to the two only answers possible, and he shows that we have no reason to believe that god exist (religion) or even can exist (agnostic position).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:37:00 No.3951151 Report

Quoted By: >>3951158 >>3951166

>>3951144
I'm liberal and atheist. I can acknowledge that on the average, black people are not as intelligent as the rest of us. However, it would be foolish to assume that their race is the only reason for this gap in average IQ. The fact of the matter is that environmental factors play a large role and a higher percentage of black people have poor learning environments growing up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:40:00 No.3951158 Report

Quoted By: >>3951161 >>3951164 >>3951165

>>3951151

That's because they're fucking retarded even adjusting for socio economic status they do worse on every metric.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:44:00 No.3951161 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951158
Punctuation, please: it makes your posts easier to read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:48:00 No.3951164 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951158
Show me a study which compares regular black people raised in black families to black people adopted at an extremely young age, raised by white families. When you can do that, then we can talk. Until then, why don't we keep this thread on topic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:49:00 No.3951165 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951158
>even adjusting for socio economic status

And how exactly does one do that? Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 15:50:00 No.3951166 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951151
Dude since monozygotic twin adoption studies cognitive psychologists and neuroscientists have known that IQ is largely (over .5) heritable. Most agree it's between .6 and .8 though.

Check this out: http://abc102.wordpress.com/

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Faith-vs-Science.jpg, 25KiB, 500x399

Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:03:00 No.3951182 Report

Quoted By: >>3951186 >>3951194

Without using IQ or individual measures, one could simply look at history's list and rates of achievements per year. If there are high rates, and then suddenly a number of years with low rates, followed by more years with high rates of invention and scientific progress, it would be informative to investigate why there was a drop in achievement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:03:00 No.3951184 Report

Quoted By:

>>3950741
>It didn't back when we legitimately didn't know any better. It's why, as you say, the brightest minds used to be religious. They aren't today because now we know better, thanks to science.

why do you assume everyone is as privileged as yourself in receiving proper science education where they lived the developmental stages in their life?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:04:00 No.3951186 Report

Quoted By: >>3951192

>>3951182

I hate this graph.

The dark ages did not come about because the rise of Christianity, but because the final collapse of the corrupt and self-serving Roman Empire. And Huns. Lots of Huns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:05:00 No.3951191 Report

Quoted By:

what this study suggests is people who had access to proper science and mathematics education early in life are less likely to believe in non-scientific explanations and more likely to be better at taking IQ tests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:06:00 No.3951192 Report

Quoted By: >>3951272

>>3951186
the huns had nothing to do with it.
it was mostly plague which wreaked havok on europe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:07:00 No.3951194 Report

Quoted By: >>3951625

>>3951182
this is a very euro-centric graph.
the middle east and east asia were still developing civilization fairly rapidly.

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IQ distribution.jpg, 24KiB, 600x405

Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:17:00 No.3951209 Report

Quoted By: >>3951217 >>3951245 >>3951910

Remember that for the species of dogs, there are subspecies, yet they are all dogs and can interbreed. It is also indisputably clear that some subspecies are highly violent while others are notably friendlier and cooperative with humans. Other species of mammals also have the same variabilities in their subspecies. Given that man is a mammalian species, such a relationship also exists with human subspecies in regards to temperament, violence, or intelligence. However, it is a political consideration that such logical deductions apply to all species except man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:20:00 No.3951217 Report

Quoted By: >>3951226

>>3951209
what does this have to do with the topic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:23:00 No.3951225 Report

Quoted By:

Christians are fucking dumb, being an athiest is much smarter, and everybody knows that, otherwise they wouldn't be on this forum

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:23:00 No.3951226 Report

Quoted By: >>3951230

>>3951217
It doesn't I just want to spread the important word.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:24:00 No.3951230 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951226

Fuck off, please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:29:00 No.3951245 Report

Quoted By: >>3951249

>>3951209

comparing variability between ancestral human populations to that of domesticated dogs is an over-exaggeration.

There doesn't exist any race that has a monopoly on genes.
There is no Chinese gene for intelligence and Swedish gene for intelligence. All races exhibit the full range of IQ scores.
Black, white, brown, yellow red, all share the same genes but the difference is allele frequencies which change over time and over environmental duress.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:33:00 No.3951249 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951245
So we should stop sending aid to africa and just send weapons and start conflicts.
That way they will be forced to naturally select over generations?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 16:56:00 No.3951272 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951192

I assume you must mean the Plague of Justinian (541–542 CE) because the Black Death was between 1348 and 1350 CE, nearing the far end of the "dark ages".

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO contradictory_behaviour.png, 74KiB, 990x582

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 19:29:00 No.3951557 Report

Quoted By:

There are a lot of logical inconsistencies between the theory and actual behaviour of religious groups or their members throughout history. Normally, in scientific practice, inconsistencies are interpreted as flaws or errors caused by bad assumptions or design in the investigative experiment.

However, because in this situation, the concept of flaw or error in the observation of the religion impacts directly upon the concept of "faith", standard scientific practice cannot be used as the investigation must assume that faith is valid because without it, the result of the investigation is that the religion is false. A true catch-22 where an investigation cannot produce a negative result or the users for whom the investigation is to benefit will reject the conclusion.

Many of the types of inconsistencies are consistent year after year, decade after decade, century after century. This suggests that the problem is endemic and that since the users claim the religion is not at fault, then it must be the users who are regularly and consistently at fault. The picture is an excerpt of a listing of such logical and behavioural faults. Mayhap this subforum can shed light on the problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 19:45:00 No.3951581 Report

Quoted By:

>>3949315
>The following studies were posted in a thread admonishing atheists. The OP apparently became buttmad at the scientific consensus that atheists are smarter on average than theists using every metric for intelligence available, so he deleted the thread.

That illustrates one of the problems identified by a past study published in a journal of pschology identifying similarities of self-reinforcing behavior between mental drug addiction and religion.

The output behavior is not the result that is sought after by the set of examinees but rather the consumption of the addictive item. The examinees utilize results in a self-reinforcing loop of rationalization which rejects non-forcible methods of breaking the cycle of addiction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:02:00 No.3951625 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951194
>this is a very euro-centric graph.
That is because Christianity is euro-centric in the examined time period as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:11:00 No.3951647 Report

Quoted By:

There were neither 1000 years of huns nor plague. But in Europe, that time period involved the most intensive practices of religion as part of politics. Separation of organized church and life was such a problem that protests eventually grew into the Protestant movement which spawned a host of religions with significantly less effect upon the State and growing logic of Science. Nevertheless, organized religion continued to suppress science when it could and to some degree continues to do so today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:12:00 No.3951650 Report

Quoted By:

Since organized religion is the world's largest single landowner and landlord, why isn't it taxed because it is clearly running for-profit business effects?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1319386171935.jpg, 91KiB, 887x508

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:16:00 No.3951659 Report

Quoted By: >>3951910

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO IQ_by_Country.png, 112KiB, 800x364

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:17:00 No.3951665 Report

Quoted By: >>3951910

tinycat !!qoWPGZQ4oQc

tinycat !!qoWPGZQ4oQc Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:25:00 No.3951689 Report

Quoted By:

in a religious society the average intelligence of atheists is higher. In a non religious society the average intelligence of religious people is higher.

In any society the average intelligence of those who deviate from the norm is higher, because people who have deviated from the norm have considered the subject and chosen to go one way or another on it, where the group of people who are following the norm consist both of people who have chosen that path after considering it, as well as a bunch of people who have never considered it and have just went along with what everyone else is doing/they are told. These people are of lower intelligence, and make the standard societal norm have a lower average intelligence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 20:26:00 No.3951690 Report

Quoted By:

There needs to be open and logical public discussion about taxation of for-profit untaxed businesses operated by church groups that compete with other non-religious businesses in the same category. For example, one church in my area (its pastor and deacon board of directors) operates a restaurant in which they hold services of a sort on Sundays or special event time periods such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. They have been able to maintain their tax exempt status, but it is clear they compete on a daily basis with other restaurants and coffeehouse restaurants in the area. Unlike those other places, the church operated restaurant doesn't have internet for customer use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 21:54:00 No.3951901 Report

Quoted By:

>>3950218
> See, in principle I don't approve of affirmative action. But when I meet racist people like you, it hurts my ability to convince myself that racial bias has diminished to the point where affirmative action is no longer needed. Obviously you'll disagree with some or all of this, but can you see my dilemma?

You don't have a dilemma. I'm not racist. The existence of /\/iggers is documented daily in the crime stats. So you have a mental illness called "Liberalism" instead.

You are clearly using affirmative action as a weapon of revenge against racial realists. This is war, chum. And we know how to deal with people like you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 25 Oct 2011 21:58:00 No.3951909 Report

Quoted By:

So the less religious the better?
Glad I'm a nihilist.

Tue 25 Oct 2011 21:58:00 No.3951910 Report

Quoted By:

>>3951209
>>3951659
>>3951665

>>>/pol/

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

On these archives

Your latest searches

Intelligence and religiosity thread.