/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #14729639

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 08:57:00 No.14729639 View View Reply Original Report

My party's level 16 psion multiclassed into bard just used this ritual, while atop an airship mounted with an extremely powerful, omnidirectional speaker system, to stop the fighting in a city. She did it Macross style with a microphone. She even got a natural 20 for a result of 45.

When was the last time YOU solved a major problem through judicious use of musical performance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:00:00 No.14729664 Report

Quoted By:

Is mass firepower considered orchestra or rock?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:00:00 No.14729670 Report

Quoted By: >>14729942

Was that in Eberron? It sounds like an Eberron thing to do.

Nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:01:00 No.14729684 Report

Quoted By: >>14729942 >>14729977

>Macross style
Is she a bimbo too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:02:00 No.14729697 Report

Quoted By:

Dark Heresy.

I have no idea why the psyker took "Perform (Singer)". Fellowship is quite expensive for psykers. She's a creepy warp-damned mutant, and should burn for it.

Instead she convinced people to like her by singing. Emperor above...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:24:00 No.14729942 Report

Quoted By:

>>14729670
Yes, it was Eberron.

I was DMing.

>>14729684
That depends on whether or not you'd consider Koishi a bimbo.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:28:00 No.14729977 Report

Quoted By:

>>14729684
>Macross
>bimbo
Overlooking the best Macross again, are we?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 09:38:00 No.14730076 Report

Quoted By:

>>14729639
My group's bard came up with a theme song for the army of a country we were protecting. And by theme song, I mean the player made up their national anthem on the spot.

They can't sing for shit, but we got a strong enough situational bonus for the effort that the redshirt army we were supporting won an encounter the DM was planning to make hopeless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 10:04:00 No.14730422 Report

Quoted By:

>Playing a bard in a mid-high level 3.5 D&D game
>Lyric Spell (cash in bardic music uses for spell levels), Disguise Spell (conceal spellcasting in a performance)
>DM allows Lyric Spell to function like Divine Metamagic, doesn't consider it an issue due to the nature of bardic spellcasting.
>Minor custom magic item based on Ghost Sound that allows the user to create music without needing an instrument. The better your Perform check, the more complex the music can be.
>Spell(s) Known: Protege (lets the caster loan things including skill ranks to the target). Enthrall, Suggestion.
>Chain Spell.
>Turn game into Dungeon and Dragons: the Musical.
>Secretly the entire reason I was playing this character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 10:10:00 No.14730494 Report

Quoted By: >>14732211

MINMAY'D

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:22:00 No.14732046 Report

Quoted By: >>14732070 >>14732137

I think it's retarded that 4e would let you do stupid shit like singing to mind control a crowd.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:25:00 No.14732070 Report

Quoted By: >>14732088

>>14732046
Yeah, bards aren't fucking arcane casters or anything that just use their voices instead of spellbooks or inherited magical ability.

They control those people entirely through the power of rock, they do. It has absolutely fucking nothing to do with MAGIC. Also, bard's didn't use magic in 3.5 to do the same shit either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:30:00 No.14732088 Report

Quoted By: >>14732175

>>14732070
But character in OP's pic wasn't even a real bard, so how is it supposed to work?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:41:00 No.14732137 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732046
>I think it's retarded 4E would let you do shit like MAGIC to MIND CONTROL people

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:46:00 No.14732173 Report

Quoted By: >>14732213 >>14732236

>natural 20
>result of 45

I smell cheating

She has a Charisma mod of 6 at most. She has training in Diplomacy and half of her level is 8.

+8
+5
+6
= +19

20 + 19 = 39

Something doesn't add up here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:46:00 No.14732175 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732088
>multiclassed into bard
>not a real bard

derp derp

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:49:00 No.14732211 Report

Quoted By: >>14732346

>>14730494
You mean. . .

RANKA'D!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:49:00 No.14732213 Report

Quoted By: >>14732255

>>14732173
>I smell cheating
because you're a tard.

>background bonus
>racial bonus
>item bonus

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:52:00 No.14732236 Report

Quoted By: >>14732255

>>14732173
her race could have a +2 to diplomacy, and she could also have +2 diplomacy from background.

Depending on her starting class, she could have various bonuses to skill checks or diplomacy.

Others aiding the magic in the ritual could also have helped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 13:54:00 No.14732255 Report

Quoted By: >>14732337

>>14732213
>>14732236
Sorry, new to 4e, my DM told me that your skill was just equal to half your level + ability mod + 5 if you're trained in it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:04:00 No.14732337 Report

Quoted By: >>14732394 >>14732406 >>14732420

>>14732255
Its no big deal, the skill system in 4e sucks, coming from someone who's played with it for nearly 2 years now. Its really generic and as you get higher levels it becomes nearly impossible to fail most skill check rolls. Challenging people with social situations or skill-based situations becomes nearly impossible as even the Fighter is convincing enough to pass most diplomacy checks.

Its possible to optimize your character in such a way (especially for a bard) that you are effectively trained in every skill, and thats just with a tiny bit of feat investment. The whole system is really trivial and bare bones.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:05:00 No.14732346 Report

Quoted By: >>14732413

>>14732211
>Ranka'd

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:11:00 No.14732394 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732337
>Its really generic and as you get higher levels it becomes nearly impossible to fail most skill check rolls. Challenging people with social situations or skill-based situations becomes nearly impossible as even the Fighter is convincing enough to pass most diplomacy checks.
Are you stupid or something? The DCs are supposed to increase as the PCs do higher level things.

At level 10 you're diplomatizing with the king, at level 30 you should be diplomatizing with the freaking GODS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:12:00 No.14732406 Report

Quoted By: >>14732466

>>14732337
>complaining that it's possible to become good at a lot of skills
enjoy your 3.x fighter with his 2 skillpoints bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:13:00 No.14732413 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732346
Her boyfriend must be a pilot, you can totally tell.

SMAP

SMAP Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:14:00 No.14732420 Report

Quoted By: >>14732447

>>14732337
>and as you get higher levels it becomes nearly impossible to fail most skill check rolls
Skill DCs are supposed to rise as you go up in level. The things that were a challenge at Heroic are not even worth rolling for at Paragon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:16:00 No.14732446 Report

Quoted By:

No one's posted this story? It's a classic!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:17:00 No.14732447 Report

Quoted By: >>14732468 >>14732469

>>14732420
I am accounting for this fact, but in the end it still buffers the classes too greatly in areas that they don't really deserve to be proficient in. It trivializes the party having a player or character who is just SKILLED, because everyone is so, with no effort at all beyond just gaining arbitrary levels.

Im not saying its bad, it just bugs me. Opinions, I suppose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:18:00 No.14732464 Report

Quoted By:

I can't help but wonder what song one would play/sing in this situation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:18:00 No.14732466 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732406
That was always really retarded. A professional fighting man should be able to know tactics and warfare history, how to mend his wounds, how to care for and repair his armour and weapons and how to survive while on campaign, at the very least. Anything beyond that should be gravy to enhance the character, but the fact that a 3x Fighter can't be good at these things is ridiculous.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:18:00 No.14732468 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732447
I think this is mostly because I always liked to play characters that were highly skilled (3.5 rogues, mostly) and did a lot of talking and sneaking, but very little fighting.

I don't like DnD combat, which is why the changes to the skill system don't really appeal to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:18:00 No.14732469 Report

Quoted By: >>14732482

>>14732447
>I am accounting for this fact, but in the end it still buffers the classes too greatly in areas that they don't really deserve to be proficient in. It trivializes the party having a player or character who is just SKILLED, because everyone is so, with no effort at all beyond just gaining arbitrary levels.
But that's objectively incorrect.

Jesus christ, dude. A level 30 fighter can have like a +15 to stuff when he's on the verge of ASCENDING TO GODHOOD.

A specialist has that +15 at level freaking ONE.

You are complaining because a level 30 character is as good as a level 1 specialist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:20:00 No.14732482 Report

Quoted By: >>14732488

>>14732469
Since when can level 1 characters get +15 to any skill? lol. At level 1 its pretty easy to trip falling on ice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:21:00 No.14732488 Report

Quoted By: >>14732492 >>14732525

>>14732482
>Since when can level 1 characters get +15 to any skill? lol. At level 1 its pretty easy to trip falling on ice.
+5 stat, +5 trained, +2 background, +3 focus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:22:00 No.14732492 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732488
Or +2 racial, +1 item without skill focus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:25:00 No.14732525 Report

Quoted By: >>14732537 >>14732540 >>14732546

>>14732488
Some pretty specific circumstances you have there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:26:00 No.14732537 Report

Quoted By: >>14732551

>>14732525

Not who you are responding to, but there are also a number of feats that give bonuses to skills incidentally, but primarily have other effects.

I'm thinking of some of the Cosmic sorcerer feats right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:27:00 No.14732540 Report

Quoted By: >>14732582

>>14732525
I said "specialis", fuckshit. It's not my fault you're too fucking stupid to read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:29:00 No.14732546 Report

Quoted By: >>14732582

>>14732525
>specialist
>oh hey what special circumstances!!!

God, I hate you so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:29:00 No.14732551 Report

Quoted By: >>14732566 >>14732572 >>14732604

>>14732537
Right, someone who invests heavily in their skill checks deserves to have a high skill check. Someone who gets prowess simply by getting older, doesn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:30:00 No.14732553 Report

Quoted By: >>14732579

ITT: a 3aboo complains that in 4E magic can let you do the same fucking mind control shit it let you do in 3.x.

What the fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:31:00 No.14732566 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732551

Not exactly. Said feats have more generic uses, but provides a specialist bonus to specific skills on the side.

Out of curiosity... how many of the people arguing in this thread are in an altered state of mind? This feels like a drunken argument.

*raises hand

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:32:00 No.14732572 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732551
>Right, someone who invests heavily in their skill checks deserves to have a high skill check. Someone who gets prowess simply by getting older, doesn't.

>I've survived 30 levels of adventuring, dealing with bandits, kobolds, orcs, nobles, kings, thieves, merchants, planar vessel captains, gith, everything in Sigil, dragons, beholders, and fucking GODS
>But I still don't know jack fucking shit about gods or magic or talking to people or sneaking around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:32:00 No.14732579 Report

Quoted By: >>14732583

>>14732553
They just mad because wizards aren't the only guys allowed to do this

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:33:00 No.14732582 Report

Quoted By: >>14732594 >>14732618 >>14732619

>>14732546
>>14732540

I don't see why you guys are so frothing mad. Am I not allowed to not like the 4e skill system for a reason? I never said it was a good one, I just don't like it.

I agree, the specialist deserves his skill check, the level 30 fighter doesn't, because he didn't practice. Even gods are fallible in DnD. Just because the fighter is "ascending" to godhood, doesn't mean he should get +15-16 to bluff, depending on his dump stat.

It could have been handled better, sorry for pissing you off, rofl.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:33:00 No.14732583 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732579
PRO TIP: they ARE. Them and bards. Just like in 3.x.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:34:00 No.14732594 Report

Quoted By: >>14732622

>>14732582
You're not allowed to say stupid shit like this:

>the level 30 fighter doesn't, because he didn't practice.
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK HE'S BEEN DOING FOR THIRTY LEVELS YOU SHITFUCK

ARE YOU SO RETARDED YOU THINK HE WENT FROM BEING A LOCAL HERO TO A PLANAR FUCKING TRAVELER TO A MULTIVERSE-SAVING SUPERMAN WITHOUT EVER LEARNING TO FUCKING TALK TO ANYONE

HE CAN'T LIE ANY BETTER AFTER EVERYTHING HE'S BEEN THROUGH AND ALL THAT HE'S DONE THAN SOME FUCKING SCRUB FRESH OUT OF HIS VILLAGE

What is WRONG with you

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:35:00 No.14732604 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732551
All D&D works like that, have you ever played it?

Assume you've got the most diplomatic campaign ever where you only have 1 fight, the rest is just political intrigue. You overcome a ton of 'encounters', you solve mysteries, etc.

You go from level 1 to 5. So even though you never fought, now you hit better, more often, you have more HP, you can dodge traps better, or resist mind effects. You can somehow channel more battle powers, you're harder to hit, you react faster and can act quicker in a fight. Most of these aren't even specific to 4E, but to 99% of RPGs out there.

Yet what annoys you is that a demigod can Swim as well as a level 1 professional swimmer, or that same demigod can lie better than a specialist bluffer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:37:00 No.14732618 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732582
>even gods are fallible
Right! And the DC to lie to that god is going to be like... 42.

The fighter can't make it anyway. The bluff-specialized rogue can. But the fighter DOES stand a chance at bluffing, say, the guards of a planar city (DC 30?), by this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:37:00 No.14732619 Report

Quoted By: >>14732627

>>14732582
You could say that he's been lied to so many times and he's seen his comrades lie, all the way from level 1 to level 30. He is now of demigod status, so he's understanding of reality is different. Is it so hard to understand? Like we're saying, most mechanics are abstract and you could nitpick every single thing in D&D, of any edition, ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:37:00 No.14732622 Report

Quoted By: >>14732630 >>14732656 >>14732662

>>14732594
Not if he didn't bluff once through the whole campaign, lol. You can stand around and watch your party's rogue lie all day and never learn how to do it properly.

I think it's perfectly possible to save the world and not become suddenly more intelligent by virtue of slaying enough monsters to level up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:38:00 No.14732627 Report

Quoted By: >>14732661

>>14732619
This. What the fuck do people think happens from level 1 to 30? DO they think it takes like a couple of weeks?
A level 30 character is one of the handful of most powerful creatures around. And he's not supposed to be any better at lying than someone who just started their career?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:39:00 No.14732630 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732622

it seems highly unlikely, and yo know that the face bard did that kinda stuff.

Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK

Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:39:00 No.14732635 Report

Quoted By:

GODDAMNIT I'M NOT UP TO FRONTIER YET

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:41:00 No.14732656 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732622
>Not if he didn't bluff once through the whole campaign, lol. You can stand around and watch your party's rogue lie all day and never learn how to do it properly.
If you are in a party with the world's best liar, and you guys hang out all the fucking time, for years and years, in deadly situations, I guarantee you that you will pick some of that shit up. My friend is a fucking English major and just from listening to him over the last four years I know more about Shakespeare than he did when he was in high school.

>I think it's perfectly possible to save the world and not become suddenly more intelligent by virtue of slaying enough monsters to level up.
It's possible to go from being a badass swordsman, to a guy who's so good his sword influences the fate of entire kingdoms, to a guy who travels the planes and sails the astral, to a guy that fearlessly walks up to the dominions of gods...

...and not learn anything. At all. Ever.

What do you think that fighter is DOING for those 30 levels? Do you honestly think his life is nothing but combat? That that's all he ever does and all he ever sees?

SMAP

SMAP Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:42:00 No.14732661 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732627
IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT A LITERAL GOD AMONGST MEN, A WALKING TITAN OF THE AGES WHOSE VERY FOOTSTEPS TREMBLE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH WOULD BE ANY GOOD AT LYING.

IT MAKES.

NO.

SENSE.

NO EPIC HERO EVER HAD SKILLS OUTSIDE OF THEIR INCREDIBLY NARROW AND SPECIALIZED ROLE. BEOWULF WAS A TERRIBLE SWIMMER AND COULDN'T PERCEIVE HIS WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG. GILGAMESH WAS ONLY GOOD AT SWORDING. MERLIN DIDN'T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT NATURE OR ANY OF THAT NON-WIZARD STUFF.

LEARN YOUR MYTHOLOGY, FAGGOTS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:42:00 No.14732662 Report

Quoted By:

>>14732622
Okay, comparing it to what other fantasy game which does skills in a realistic manner?

D&D is about being heroic. It's not regular people who need to practice all their life to be good at something. You're one of the few chosen ones.

Remember 3.5 where if you had a Fighter, you'd only be -decent- at Climbing and Jumping? I prefer being level 30 and being able to do more than 2 basic things which can be easily circumvented by two level 1 spells.

In 4E, characters at level 30 are basically immortal. They're demigods. You have like 10 beings who could kill you, in the entire universe. And you think it's wrong that such a demigod is able to perform a task as well as a specialist who is level 1.

Mwu !z5VJUXtDQE

Mwu !z5VJUXtDQE Wed 27 Apr 2011 14:42:00 No.14732666 Report

Quoted By:

>Stumbles into /tg/ after shit week, slightly drunk.
>Sees thread with pic of badly maimed animals and troll message.
>Sees this thread, derailed whenever people decide to argue over skill minutia instead of having an "awesome PC moment" thread.

Nothing changed.

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