/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #14746561

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:14:00 No.14746561 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14746843 >>14747446 >>14750130

http://bestfantasybooks.com/top25-fantasy-books.php

So, how does /tg/ feel how about this top 25 best fantasy book list?

I wanted to jump-start my knowledge of fantasy novels and this blog was recommended to me by a friend, so I've just been checking out from libraries or borrowing from friends anything on this list, and some of the books on his Great Fantasy Books list. It's been working out pretty well for me, although he feels a little too passionate about a Song of Ice and Fire. Although I liked it, it wasn't THAT amazing.

Anything big that this guy missed? Anything you guys think is awful that's on here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:17:00 No.14746585 Report

Quoted By:

>>>/lit/
Ha, just kidding. /lit/ is terrible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:18:00 No.14746605 Report

Quoted By: >>14746744

>#1: A Game of Thrones (George R.R. Martin)

oh, lawd. here we go

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:27:00 No.14746744 Report

Quoted By: >>14746776 >>14746966

>>14746605
I wouldn't know if that deserves to be there or not, but looking down the list, it keeps appearing in the 'similar recommendations' after each entry. Which is completely redundant. Also- good God the covers of fantasy books are off-putting.

OP, read Gormenghast.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:29:00 No.14746776 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746744
By which I mean... read Titus Groan, then Gormenghast. 'Cos Gormenghast is actually the second book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:33:00 No.14746832 Report

Quoted By:

I can't say I know more than 20% of this list but what I know is indeed quite good. And there isn't a lot of good fantasy anyway so it's not like there's too much competition.

That said,
>no amber
>no discworld
>No Discworld
>NO DISCWORLD

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:34:00 No.14746841 Report

Quoted By: >>14746966

>Game of Thrones
Hell, I enjoyed them. Why not?

>Lord of the Rings
Sure, classic.

>The Malazan Book of the Fallen
On my list of things to read.

>The Name of the Wind
Never heard of it.

>Black Company
That's what I'm fuckin' talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:34:00 No.14746843 Report

Quoted By: >>14746966

>>14746561

I got to the first book and stopped reading, meaning to come here and tell you to just read that series. Then I finished reading your post.

FUCK YOU, SONG OF ICE AND FIRE WAS THAT AMAZING.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:35:00 No.14746850 Report

Quoted By: >>14746966 >>14747514

>Abhorsen
People still remember those?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:38:00 No.14746878 Report

Quoted By: >>14746952 >>14746966

> Thomas Covenant

Ignore this list and everything associated with it, OP. Thomas Covenant is a whiny bitch and a pain to read.

I'd strongly suggest Roger Zelazny's Amber series or Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:41:00 No.14746920 Report

Quoted By:

The really weird one is the 'literary fantasy' list it links to... Chronicles of Narnia is on there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:44:00 No.14746951 Report

Quoted By:

Yeah, I dunno. I didn't know half of these. I'm sad that American Gods is that far down, but considering that I don't agree with half the ratings, that's okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:44:00 No.14746952 Report

Quoted By: >>14746975 >>14746982

>>14746878

>> Ignore this list and everything associated with it, OP. Thomas Covenant is a whiny bitch and a pain to read.

God yes. When he was in the Land he whined about not being on Earth, and on Earth he whined about not being in the Land.

>> No Amber
>> No Riddle-Master of Hed
>> No Earthsea
>> No Discworld

Yeah, I'm calling shenanigans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:45:00 No.14746966 Report

Quoted By: >>14749978

>>14746744
Gormenghast is next on my pile of things to read.

>>14746843
It was really good, but the unconnected subplots and the half-assed fantasy bothered me, but more importantly it has one of the most annoying fandoms of any fantasy book series I've encountered.

>>14746841
The first Cold Fire book was leagues better than the Eye of the World, so I have to go with you there.

>>14746850
Fuck yeah, I loved Sabriel. A good-aligned necromancer? We really don't get enough of those. Plus decent female main characters are rare enough.

>>14746878
Yep, I gave up Lord Foul's Bane around after the main character raped a girl and it barely mattered a couple dozen pages afterward.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:46:00 No.14746975 Report

Quoted By: >>14747004 >>14747010

>>14746952
> Discworld
I SEE YOU TROLL. OP, stay away from discworld. It looks good in quotes and snippets, but it sucks as an actual story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:47:00 No.14746982 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746952
To be fair, the Earthsea books and Amber series are the two highest books on the Great Fantasy Books list.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:48:00 No.14746985 Report

Quoted By: >>14747020 >>14747035

>No Sword of Truth
>No Diskworld
>Wheel of Time coming in at #11
>Author confirmed for some faggot who picked out the pretty covers at Barns & Noble.

While he may get a bit overbearing with the propaganda and a little too detailed on the rape scenes, the Sword of Truth books are well written with believable characters and Diskworld if FUCKING DISKWORLD.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:49:00 No.14747004 Report

Quoted By: >>14747017

>>14746975
Personally I was loads happier reading Good Omens than any individual Discworld book.

Gaiman really helped Pratchett in writing something that was both humorous AND a good story, for once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:50:00 No.14747010 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746975
>TROLL
youkeepusingthatword.jpg
The Chronicles of Amber, by Roger Zelazny (the Corwin Cycle, 5 books) is the best fantasy book series I have ever read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:51:00 No.14747017 Report

Quoted By: >>14747057

>>14747004
That's because it was gaiman. You'd be happier reading Sandman than all of the Discworld books combined.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:51:00 No.14747020 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746985
I remember when it was still spelled "Discworld".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:52:00 No.14747035 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746985
>He thinks the Sword of Truth series is amazing!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:54:00 No.14747057 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747017
I've read both and I disagree. Sandman is amazing but I wouldn't trade the entire Discworld saga for it.

Does Dune count as fantasy? It has strong fantasy elements. It is also so awesome it transcends mere thread topics and should be recommended in every book thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:55:00 No.14747072 Report

Quoted By: >>14747077 >>14747078

In what order should I read the Discworld books?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:56:00 No.14747077 Report

Quoted By: >>14747130 >>14747155

>>14747072

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 09:56:00 No.14747078 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747072
Sandman Vol. 1
Sandman Vol. 2
etcetera

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:00:00 No.14747130 Report

Quoted By: >>14747155 >>14747414

>>14747077
And I recommend you start with Mort or with Guards! Guards!

But you can read them in pretty much any order. They're all stand-alone, and there aren't huge spoilers in one book for another.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:01:00 No.14747155 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747077
>>14747130
Thank you, you beautiful men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:21:00 No.14747414 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747130
Mort ftw. It's probably the best Discworld book, although I do like Small Gods.

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

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dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:24:00 No.14747446 Report

Quoted By: >>14747525

>>14746561

>Tolkien #4

Don't make me choke on my tea.

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:26:00 No.14747471 Report

Quoted By:

No Chronic-

>Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever #20

Everything went better than expected

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:27:00 No.14747491 Report

Quoted By:

So Has anyone herd of Fritz Leiber I love his swords series and the big time is one of my favorite sifi books

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

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dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:29:00 No.14747514 Report

Quoted By: >>14747591

>>14746850

You know Abhorsen, that was like reading Dianna Wynnes Jones for me...you have to be patient...because it was during a time when Nix wasn't that terrific at writing, and he really tends to drift off a bit...but...finishing that series, I was satisfied. It is a story unlike any I have ever read, and really well constructed.

It wasn't until years later I envisioned "Man these books would make a REALLY awesome game someday if someone took the time and effort to make one out of it."

>pic related, the Abhorsen is god-tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:29:00 No.14747525 Report

Quoted By: >>14747560

>>14747446
Are you arguing he's too high or too low? It's a classic and pretty good but it also has a lot of flaws (the pacing is terrible) so you could argue either way.

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:32:00 No.14747560 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747525

too low, sorry, i'm just a die-hard when it comes to Tolkien. also can't wait for the hobbit.

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

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dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:34:00 No.14747591 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747514

uppin more abhorsen pics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:38:00 No.14747630 Report

Quoted By: >>14747654

if they are the best fantasy books whats the best sci-fi ones?

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:39:00 No.14747654 Report

Quoted By: >>14747716

>>14747630

some argue that

>tolkien = herbert

...but that's not my opinion

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:43:00 No.14747716 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747654
Well Dune is much more enjoyable to read.

As for the best sci-fi books... That's actually much harder. There's a LOT more good sci-fi than good fantasy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:44:00 No.14747736 Report

Quoted By: >>14747799 >>14747826 >>14747852

Alot of people will complain about one fantasy book or another. The fact of the matter is that every fantasy novel is a rip-off of Tolkien. Is that a bad thing? Maybe not. If you want to read a silly story about imaginary things then really any fantasy novel will suffice. If you want to read a rich and immersive story with a full and unparallelled legendarium then you want to pick up Tolkiens works.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:46:00 No.14747758 Report

Quoted By:

>fantasy thread
>people recommending Chronicles of Amber
>mfw I have no face that can express my joy.

Also try Jack Vance's Songs of the Dying Earth.

Hell, pretty much anything by Vance or Zelazny will, at the very least, be interesting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:49:00 No.14747794 Report

Quoted By:

Guys! If this list is for top 25, I can almost guarantee that I'll be able to reach the tier list with my books.

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

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dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:49:00 No.14747799 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747736

>agrees with this post

but really folks, we could fight all night

I have some on my list of books I was looking to read if that helps, I've heard good things about them:

>The Windup Girl by Bacigalupi

>Reap the Wild Wind

>Neverwhere

>The Desert of Souls

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:52:00 No.14747826 Report

Quoted By: >>14747853

>>14747736
>The fact of the matter is that every fantasy novel is a rip-off of Tolkien.
Have you even read the Chronicles of Amber?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:54:00 No.14747852 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747736
There are fantasy books out there without orcs, dragons, artifacts of doom and evil demigods. You should try one sometime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 10:54:00 No.14747853 Report

Quoted By: >>14748130

>>14747826
>>14747826

As a superior being I don't waste time reading fantasy novels that aren't written by Tolkien. Instead I memorize the Silmarillion before I jack off all over my numerous copies of The Hobbit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:01:00 No.14747942 Report

Quoted By: >>14747973

Whats wrong with diskworld? Its a funny, thought provoking series with a lot of good characters and writing. It will make you laugh.

The world isn't hugely defined, but that is a small price for quality humor and writing. Try Going Postal, Thudd!, The Thief of Time, Monstrous Regiment, or The Wee Free Men. All are great.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:03:00 No.14747973 Report

Quoted By: >>14747997

>>14747942

>implying that defined world makes sense for a comedy and that it doesn't happy in modern story telling at all.

Go look up Sunnydale from Buffy.

Tvtropes tells me things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:06:00 No.14747997 Report

Quoted By: >>14748024

>>14747973

That was my point. At least I think that was my point, if you were not busy debasing my glorious language with your garbled retard speech.

Anyways, no, you dont need a huge defined world for a comedy series. I would go so far to say it makes the series better as a whole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:08:00 No.14748024 Report

Quoted By: >>14748050

>>14747997

if you had not used the phrase "small price" I would not have said anything.

because it implied that tons and tons of backstory before writing something is worth it.

.... I feel it does not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:09:00 No.14748050 Report

Quoted By:

>>14748024

Agreed, tally ho my good fellow!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:11:00 No.14748073 Report

Quoted By: >>14748146

>No Rats and Gargoyles
>No China Mieville
>No Diana Wynne Jones
Also seconding the Discworld recommendations, shit's awesome and hilarious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:14:00 No.14748130 Report

Quoted By:

>>14747853
No Leiber, Norton, or Zelazny. Several of the diarhea_of_the_keyboard crowd *are* on the list.

Bleh.

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dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:15:00 No.14748146 Report

Quoted By: >>14748162

>>14748073

I mentioned Dianna...

Chrestomanci ftw!

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs

dusty_thoreau !dlBx6XtTxs Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:16:00 No.14748162 Report

Quoted By:

>>14748146

Diana*

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:18:00 No.14748180 Report

Quoted By: >>14748279

What's with the discworld with a k shit going on?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:20:00 No.14748214 Report

Quoted By:

>no discworld

This shit, fuck it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:23:00 No.14748260 Report

Quoted By: >>14748323 >>14749918

While I'm at it...
Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter for grimdark
Saberhagen's Swords trilogy for epic fantasy
And Barry Hughart's Master Li novels for general fuckwin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:25:00 No.14748279 Report

Quoted By:

>>14748180
Common misspelling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:26:00 No.14748284 Report

Quoted By: >>14748301

Hey, there's also Ilona Andrews-
*Is shot repeatedly for mentioning urban fantasy*

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:27:00 No.14748301 Report

Quoted By:

>>14748284
OP's list has Dresden Files so no big deal.

On that topic, no Harry Potter? It's not an immortal masterpiece or anything, but in a top 25 that includes the Wheel of Time...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:29:00 No.14748323 Report

Quoted By: >>14749918

>>14748260
>Saberhagen's Swords trilogy for epic fantasy

Yessssssssssssssssssssss...

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:34:00 No.14748377 Report

Quoted By:

OP, disregard all this faggotry about elves and medieval times and shit. You need to read the mothafuckin Elric Saga. (Parts I & II, anyway. Part III is good, but it just fills in gaps in the first two books. You can safely skip part IV.) This series is pure metal and way more original than almost anything else in the genre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:41:00 No.14748456 Report

Quoted By: >>14748494

Dianna Wynnes Jones is amazing also Anne McCaffrey's fantasy stuff is good. Also i concur the Elric is god tier.
But what do other people think of Fafard and the Gray Mouser?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:44:00 No.14748494 Report

Quoted By:

>>14748456
>>What do others think of the Twain?
Badass. It's cheap pulp fantasy with enough serious fucking weird to make it magical. It's full of people dealing with magical bullshit, and yet coming out on top. Basically, it's like you always wish a D&D game could be, but rarely see.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:46:00 No.14748524 Report

Quoted By: >>14749918

>Sword of Shadows

Yes. This series doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

>American Gods

Yes.

>The Old Kingdom

It's not called the Abhorsen trilogy, fuckdamn, and I loved those books.

But where's my goddamned Discworld?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:50:00 No.14748586 Report

Quoted By:

>No Diana Wynne Jones

I must disagree with this list. Deep Secret is one of my favorite fantasy novels ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 11:54:00 No.14748652 Report

Quoted By: >>14749918

This list was not assembled with any actual method, its simply some guy putting in what he liked. Even the method he CLAIMED to use, that of representative selections, only really comes into play from 15+.

His choices are terrible and poorly ordered but thats subjective thinking on my part.

In summary this list is a piece of shit and should not be viewed as any inherently better informed than that of the opinion of a single random guy who reads a lot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 12:22:00 No.14748973 Report

Quoted By:

I like the fact that Name of the Wind is on the list.

It is my favorite new-er fantasy series that is still going on but isn't ancient (like Wheel of Time). I prefer it to song of ice and fire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 13:21:00 No.14749601 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 13:49:00 No.14749918 Report

Quoted By: >>14749978

>>14748652

I tend to agree that the ordering is questionable at best, and there's stuff that could be dropped entirely and stuff that should be there but isn't. So, while book opinions are always going to be subjective, it doesn't seem like much of any effort has been put in to make this as objective as possible.

Also, Brent Weeks being dropped from the list is good, but Brent Weeks having ever been on a top 25 fantasy list is terrible.

Also, needs moar Michael Scott Rohan's Winter of the World.

>>14748524

Dem fucking Sevrances.

>>14748260
>>14748323

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 13:55:00 No.14749978 Report

Quoted By: >>14750162

I have no large problems with this list, but it is perhaps a bit too much geared towards multi-volume epic fantasies.

>>14746966
> Yep, I gave up Lord Foul's Bane around after the main character raped a girl and it barely mattered a couple dozen pages afterward.
The rape is actually perhaps the most significant event in the series in terms of story and character impact. It doesn't show up as soon as a couple of dozen pages, though.

>>14749918
Ooo, a mention of Rohan and Jones in the same post! How delightful.

Regault

Regault Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:06:00 No.14750078 Report

Quoted By: >>14750233 >>14750277

Author of the list seems to have a stick up his ass for serious books for serious people like myself.

I honestly prefer Glen Cook's Garret PI novels to his Black Company novels. Sure, they're trashy as hell and there's way too many midget redheads in a single city, but they're a fun read up until Petty Pewter Gods.

Other good series to read is the Bahzell Bahnakson books. David Weber is actually a very good writer when nobody's giving him the chance to drone on for twenty pages about naval tactics in space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:11:00 No.14750130 Report

Quoted By:

>>14746561
Robert Jordan is ranked above Michael Moorcock, Fritz Lieber and Ursula Le Guin aren't even on the list. The list is invalid.

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:15:00 No.14750162 Report

Quoted By: >>14750215

>>14749978

Thomas Covenant is God Tier. Donaldson has some of the best writing out there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:19:00 No.14750215 Report

Quoted By: >>14750267

>>14750162
I know man, I know (even if he sometimes dips into the thesaurus like a boss).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:20:00 No.14750233 Report

Quoted By:

>>14750078
>when nobody's giving him the chance to drone on for twenty pages about naval tactics in space.

Instead he drones on for no more than a paragraph about how tall and muscular everyone is in relation to everyone else.

They are decent reads as actiony fantasy, and don't get me wrong, I like that, but they aren't any more than that.

It is nice that you can read them freely online, as well ("Oath of Swords" is the first of the three):

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/06-WindRiderCD/WindRiderCD/

Too bad it seems like that series isn't getting any love, lately. I want to know what the hell Wencit actually is. Probably a fuckin' dragon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:22:00 No.14750259 Report

Quoted By:

No Earthsea?

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C

GL Pretentious Hipster !!NU1qDw5ZF2C Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:23:00 No.14750267 Report

Quoted By: >>14750340

>>14750215

I'm getting married later this year.

White Gold wedding bands.

Then I will be the White Gold Wielder.

Have you read Against All Things Ending? I haven't, and was wondering how good it was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:24:00 No.14750277 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:29:00 No.14750340 Report

Quoted By:

>>14750267
That's cool GL, congratulations! White gold all the way.

Unfortunately, I haven't yet read the book. It's still sitting on my shelf, staring at me in reproach. I've mostly - intentionally - read shorter books this year because of some time constraints. I'm thinking of opening that sucker up come summer, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:33:00 No.14750372 Report

Quoted By: >>14750417 >>14751588 >>14753971

I also checked out his "worst fantasy books" list, and was suprised that Eragon didn't make the top 10. I was also suprised that he didn't mention how Eragon steals its magic system almost word for from Earthsea. Other than that, I haven't read many of the books on either list.

Also, why are there no DnD, Warhammer, Warcraft, etc books on these lists? I'm sure at least one of them is bad enough to be on the crap list (and some of them might even deserve an honorable mention on the good list). Where game related books not even considered?

When he ripped the one guy for liking to write about raping pretty ladies I couldn't help but picture CS Goto and his elf torture fetish. Heh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:33:00 No.14750376 Report

Quoted By:

>So, how does /tg/ feel how about this top 25 best fantasy book list?

Imagine I found a picture of a mopy young Sparrowhawk or Thomas Covenant hating himself or Cugel the Clever getting attacked by grues and pelgrane, and then I took that picture and wrote FEELS BAD MAN over it in impact font and posted it as a reaction image here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 14:40:00 No.14750417 Report

Quoted By: >>14750590 >>14751570

>>14750372
>Also, why are there no DnD, Warhammer, Warcraft, etc books on these lists?
There is. Icewind Dale is on the Worst list.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 15:02:00 No.14750590 Report

Quoted By:

>>14750417
There's also a general entry for all D&D novels in the worst list.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 15:09:00 No.14750655 Report

Quoted By:

Ah, the Old Kingdom books, I loved them. Hell, still do. Really enjoyable and unusual setting. I would kill to play a game in that setting.

They are why every necromancer I've played has used bells for spellcasting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 17:35:00 No.14751570 Report

Quoted By:

>>14750417
I've just remembered the most godawful piece-of-shit fantasy book I've ever picked up... it was a Magic The Gathering one, with a... druid? Who summoned a magic badger? I can't quite remember, but that's definitely a good thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 17:42:00 No.14751588 Report

Quoted By:

>>14750372
The author sounds like an insufferable cockbite based on that list.

What an ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:22:00 No.14753350 Report

Quoted By:

Man, this blog writer writes a lot but doesn't write well... still, I guess having read all those books (many of which were surely terrible), it's good that he's putting his experience to use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:39:00 No.14753445 Report

Quoted By: >>14753524 >>14754607

>This man, when he was alive, claimed Tolkien's world building mantle
I think one of the worst complements you can give an author is that he's a great "world-builder," simply because "world building" is the easiest part of fiction-writing. Yes, getting the imaginary world you've created to feel like it's something real and used can be difficult once you've created it, but even then the techniques for jumping the gap between "unreal" and "believable" are well-established and relatively simple.

Creating memorable, complicated characters is difficult. Writing dialogue that doesn't sound stilted or unnatural is difficult. Slapping a bunch of shit together and calling it a world is not too difficult at all.

And while Tolkien is usually lauded for "world-building" (and he did create an immense body of background mythology for his stories), his real skill was in rich description of the natural world and a gift for "poetic" (not necessarily "natural") dialogue. Tolkien wasn't a spectacular writer (I think Moorcock's criticisms of Tolkien and the conservative fantasy writing clique are well-founded), but he had those definite strengths. Remembering him as the father of "world-building" -- the father of nerdy self-wankery -- might be appropriate, but it doesn't really capture why Lord of the Rings surpasses all the later attempts to do the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:39:00 No.14753448 Report

Quoted By: >>14753480

No Le Guin in the list? Sorry, not for me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:44:00 No.14753469 Report

Quoted By:

>Name of the Wind
Fuck you, fag. Where's Discworld? I didn't even like Discworld, but it'll go here before this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:45:00 No.14753480 Report

Quoted By: >>14753486 >>14753545

>>14753448
Thing is with Le Guin, her adult stuff is scifi, isn't it? Earthsea is good, for sure, and adults can read and enjoy it, but it's still... for the kids, like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:46:00 No.14753486 Report

Quoted By: >>14753549 >>14753552

>>14753480
See also: Philip Pullman's awesome His Dark Materials trilogy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:50:00 No.14753523 Report

Quoted By:

>No Discworld
Pratchett is the best fantasy author we have. Why? Because fantasy writing is almost universally shit, but virtually everyone in the western world has been exposed to its stupid shit over the years, and he's an absolute master at playing with fantasy's conventions, as well as constructing fascinating dialogue.

But comedy is necessarily going to be considered beneath serious work, even if 99% of a genre's "best" serious work is utter shit.

I'd recommend Pratchett before anyone else on that list.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:50:00 No.14753524 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753445
Good points, definitely. Although part of the quality of Tolkien- and the writing does need to be good enough to achieve this- is that you can feel the depth of the world he made behind everything. And one reason it's hard to beat him is that, especially as he did so much of the groundwork, other people don't put nearly so much effort (and scholarship+raw intelligence) into making a convincing and still unique world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:52:00 No.14753545 Report

Quoted By: >>14753571

>>14753480
Kids can read it and enjoy it, but come back to it as an adult with more discerning tastes and you might be surprised to find just how well the prose holds up. Compare it with something like the Chronicles of Narnia, which it's impossible to read with adult sensibilities and not cringe at every line.

Le Guin is objectively a better writer than 90% of the list in the OP, including Martin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:53:00 No.14753549 Report

Quoted By: >>14753574 >>14753582 >>14753591 >>14753592

>>14753486
Pullman lost me somewhere in the Subtle Knife. To this day I don't know why, but it felt like there was something sinister and inappropriate being conveyed to me through the pages. Maybe that was the intent. Felt sick and started reading a novelization of robotech instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:53:00 No.14753552 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753486
In fact, while I'm recommending fantasy books which are for kids but also full of awesomeness:
Terry Jones- Eric the Viking. It's a quest to find the land where the sun goes at night. With Vikings. And Dog Warriors. And tricksy trolls. And Death.
Salman Rushdie's Haroun and the Sea of Stories: modern fairy tale stuffed with amazing weirdness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:54:00 No.14753558 Report

Quoted By:

>From the "Worst" list
>#5: Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, et. all
>There was a witty line I put in here that fans of D&D and Manga found insulting, so gone it is.
What an incredible pussy.

Also, what an idiot. You're bound to get hits from butthurt fans of shitty fantasy novels linking to your one-liner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:55:00 No.14753566 Report

Quoted By: >>14753621

>Wheel of Time
>#11
This is basically why I can't take fantasy lit seriously.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:55:00 No.14753571 Report

Quoted By: >>14753612

>>14753545
Hey, I liked Narnia. Lewis was a pretty cool guy, eh wrote the Screwtape Letters and didn't afraid of anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:55:00 No.14753574 Report

Quoted By: >>14753623

>>14753549
Is it that you're a god-fearin' Christian? The Subtle Knife starts giving out subtle hints about where things are going, and, well, it's lucky that a lot of the crazy folks who denounce Harry Potter have probably never heard of Pullman because they would burn him at the stake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:56:00 No.14753582 Report

Quoted By: >>14753593 >>14753623

>>14753549
His Dark Materials does reveal itself to be atheist propaganda by the end, so maybe you picked up on that.

I'm as atheist as they come and it pissed me off how Pullman let his agenda override a charming world and story.

SMAP

SMAP Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:57:00 No.14753591 Report

Quoted By: >>14753623

>>14753549
Well, the series has a distinct moral to it and is pretty clearly atheistic in slant, but I can't really say I got anything "sinister" off it. Essentially it boils down to "live for the sake of life and making the world better, not for death and controlling everything," which strikes me as relatively upbeat.

Subtle Knife definitely had its slow points, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:57:00 No.14753592 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753549
I read the Subtle Knife when I was 12, I think, and I definitely remember picking up on the (alternately subtle and not-so-subtle) sexuality of the whole thing. Same goes for the Golden Compass. Maybe that was just me being a weird little dude, though.

Didn't read the last book, but not for any particular reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:57:00 No.14753593 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753582
I, on the other hand, thought it was very cool and I'm not an atheist... although the first book was probably the best.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:59:00 No.14753609 Report

Quoted By:

On the surprisingly good list...
A Companion to Wolves.
The first half is about telepathic gay S&M viking sex politics.
The second half and a little bit of the first half are about how much living in fantasy scandanavia with zerglike trolls sucks balls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Apr 2011 23:59:00 No.14753612 Report

Quoted By: >>14753636 >>14753895

>>14753571
He was a cool guy, but I enjoyed his books as a kid when I couldn't discern the preachiness or the way he writes down to children.

Still, books like The Magician's Nephew and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader are full of awesome, dreamlike landscapes and imagery. I'm still fond of them, but they're not books that adults can enjoy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:00:00 No.14753621 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753566
Don't take the blog seriously! There's a lot of content, but I wouldn't go so far as to TRUST it, y'know.

...that's not to say that most fantasy isn't terrible. It is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:00:00 No.14753623 Report

Quoted By: >>14753642 >>14753657

>>14753591
>>14753582
>>14753574
Well, that'd explain it then. Would've thought my parents would've caught that before they gave it to me though, they're pretty catholic. I'm also pretty catholic, but it's hard to be catholic without a sense of humor these days.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:02:00 No.14753636 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753612
>Reepacheep

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:02:00 No.14753642 Report

Quoted By: >>14753651

>>14753623
It unfolds quite, uh, subtly until the third book. As I recall the first book doesn't even make a big thing of the Church being the child-stealing bad guys...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:03:00 No.14753651 Report

Quoted By: >>14753664 >>14753696

>>14753642
I just assumed that was Coulter being a bitch and manipulating stuff. What, were they raping them? It's a child rape joke isn't it. It's always a child rape joke. Were they raping their little animals too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:04:00 No.14753657 Report

Quoted By: >>14753681

>>14753623
You'll need that sense of humour if you ever do read the third book. Just try to remember that they're kind of doing God a favour...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:05:00 No.14753664 Report

Quoted By: >>14753689

>>14753651
Yes. With a huge fucking guillotine.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:07:00 No.14753681 Report

Quoted By: >>14753739

>>14753657
Oh no that's not ominous at all.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:07:00 No.14753689 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753664
I USED MY EARTH DESTROYING PICTURE SLIGHTLY TOO SOON.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:08:00 No.14753696 Report

Quoted By: >>14753774

>>14753651
I never actually thought of rape. Huh. You might even be able to make a case for that...

But no, it's the cutting the kids off from their daemons, which is essentially like cutting out their soul and iirc inevitably results in death for the kid concerned. Actually, any connection to rape would be pretty tenuous, as the whole intent is to preserve the kid's innocence forever. The bad guys' crime is to try to keep people in the dark.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:12:00 No.14753727 Report

Quoted By: >>14753770

>people talking about how Pullman lost it
>not mentioning how Le Guin COMPLETELY lost it with Earthsea
Is everyone in this thread pretending that the later books don't exist or what?

Sasha !ApPkmtJbAE

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Sasha !ApPkmtJbAE Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:13:00 No.14753731 Report

Quoted By:

I really didn't like "A Song of Ice and Fire". It wasn't a BAD read, it just wasn't particularly good.

Why do people like it so much, anyway? The scope isn't particularly epic, the characters are clunky (with a few exceptions), the prose is unnecessarily thick. Again, it's not bad as such, just mediocre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:13:00 No.14753739 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753681
Intentionally ominous, I assure you...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:16:00 No.14753764 Report

Quoted By:

Well, I'm glad the Dresden Files is on there, at least.

But I suppose that the list is a good example of the difference between "Best" and "My/Your favorite" books.

For example. I'm reading the Black Company now. and while I'll admit to it's quality, Perdido Street Station was, to me, way more gripping and memorable. I dont think it was a BETTER book, it was a book I enjoyed more. The only books on that list that I've read and truly, truly LOVED were the Dresden Files and American Gods, and of Neil Gaiman's work, I liked Neverwhere more.

I'm sure that the Kings Speech was a good movie. But even if I had seen it, I'd still remember District 9 ten years later, while Speech would be forgotten.

Plus. there's the issue of when I've read it. I read The Gathering Dark and Animorphs back during my formative years in middle school, so those will always be totally awesome, no matter how much they sucked.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:16:00 No.14753770 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753727
I read those books too long ago... I vaguely recall the second and third ones not matching the first, but I don't think I read the fourth book at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:17:00 No.14753774 Report

Quoted By: >>14753780 >>14753806

>>14753696

I'm surprised, however, by how anticlimatic the final battle is. You have the men from every world storming the Gates of Heaven, and the angels are...Kind of weak. Even Metatron is said to be much less than he was, in life- I was thinking they'd be the equivalent of Exalted, or sort of like Evangelion's Angels, with Zen-like conviction and powers.

Also, the detour in the Amber Spyglass, the world with the birds, was fucking weird. Why is the only way to save the world an (implied) underaged sex scene?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:17:00 No.14753780 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753774
Read your Bible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:21:00 No.14753806 Report

Quoted By: >>14753836 >>14753855

>>14753774
That was the whole deal with the Angels, wasn't it? They were the immortal, terrifying minions of God himself, who would be able to mess with them? (spoilers) maybe everybody, it turns out? You've got to love how the Metatron is (literally) taken down, though...

Now you've got me thinking about how the ending was supposed to work. They kiss, and... everything is OK. Was it well enough written that I didn't stop and say WAT? Maybe it was...

Sasha !ApPkmtJbAE

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Sasha !ApPkmtJbAE Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:23:00 No.14753828 Report

Quoted By:

Oh, also:
>Jim Butcher
Well, OK, glad to see he's on here, at least, even if only at #25...
>Dresden Files
>Codex Alera got left off to avoid having same author twice

FUCK YOUUUUU
Codex Alera is better by far than a good number of entries on this list...oh, and it's already finished, so we don't have to worry about Butcher croaking before the final book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:24:00 No.14753836 Report

Quoted By: >>14753881

>>14753806
Oh shit, I'm looking it up now, and I reminded myself of the two kind of-probably-definitely gay angels... did this book get burned over there in the USA? If not, why not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:26:00 No.14753855 Report

Quoted By: >>14753893 >>14753914

>>14753806

Still, it felt like a letdown. Sure, the Authority himself was senile, but the system he created should still be glittering, awe-inspiring, and threatening. Having them job in the battle was rather strange.

Also, the way Metatron was lured into the trap rang a little false to me, too; He was lusting after Mrs. Coulter, which seemed odd, given how the angels appear to be mostly beyond emotions. In my opinion, I'd have had him be so supremely sure of his judgement, so confident that humans are corrupt and wicked creatures, that he never expected the two of them to jump him. Same effect, but he's less corrupt, and more arrogant in this one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:30:00 No.14753881 Report

Quoted By: >>14753964

>>14753836
Not quite popular enough to come to the attention of the fundies and dumb housewives, since none of them actually read. They just observe their kids and rifle through their possessions for signs of heresy. That's how they found Harry Potter, for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:31:00 No.14753893 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753855
I don't remember how clear it is how much he created, though... didn't he lie about creating the angels? I don't think the heavenly forces need to be that strong, because they're not required to actually do anything- religions like the one in Lyra's world can develop and worship them with very little in the way of actual miracles...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:31:00 No.14753895 Report

Quoted By: >>14753906

>>14753612
um what?
the books are written as an allegory, what you need to do is ignore the allegory and look at it JUST as a fantasy series. The other thing you need to realise is that quite a lot of books used to be written like that, especially for children, I wouldn't call it talking down to, more explaining in a grandfatherly tone.
If you imagine them being told aloud to a child then they make more sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:33:00 No.14753906 Report

Quoted By: >>14753923

>>14753895
But that style makes it annoying to read as an adult... being a deeply, deeply old-fashioned English grandfatherly tone probably doesn't help, either...

SMAP

SMAP Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:34:00 No.14753914 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753855
I think the point was that the angels and such, despite being all they were, still were largely impotent. Y'know, metaphor for the irrelevance of god in a mechanistic universe and all that.

The metatron thing? Eh, yeah, I can see that. I'd have to go back and reread it to get a strong feeling either way, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:35:00 No.14753923 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753906
Also, try ignoring the allegory in The Last Battle. You can't, because it stops being an allegory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:36:00 No.14753941 Report

Quoted By:

>maybe gay angel
>Metatron
Good Omens is such a good book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:39:00 No.14753964 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753881

Now, the only two Harry Potter books I liked were the Prisoner of Azkban and the Order of the Phoenix. The rest felt...very uneven to me.

Also, did anybody feel that the ending duel was the most anticlimatic battle *ever*? I was hoping that Harry and Voldemort would throw down, with Harry being boosted by the Elder Wand.

Then again, I also felt that a more fitting ending would have Harry take the three Deathly Hallows, to protect them...And vanish from the world, reappearing as a living legend.

So years later, when the whole group gathers to send the next generation off the Hogwarts, they briefly glimpse Harry, who hasn't aged a day, smiling at them, before he's obscured by a passing train. It's past, he's gone again.

Also, the romance with Ginny was really terrible, for how sudden and...thematically inappropriate it was. He can't have a normal school life, can't be a prefect, and so on- yeah, we get it. The last-minute hookup was rather jarring.

Also, I really like the movies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:40:00 No.14753971 Report

Quoted By: >>14754010 >>14755717

>>14750372

No, the author of this blog has a huge stick up his ass. If you check the "Worst novels list" he takes all game tie in novels, lumps them all together and then declares them crap.

He mentions R. A. Salvatore by name later. Which gives me a sneaking suspicion that he has only read the Icewind Dale series and based his opinion of the entire volume of D&D novels on Salvatore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:43:00 No.14753993 Report

Quoted By: >>14754026

If the guy doesn't even mention Pratchett or Ursula LeGuinn in either a good or bad light when discussing modern fantasy literature, he isn't espousing what could be called an "educated opinion."

Good or bad, both authors are integral to the modern foundation of the fantasy genre, LeGuinn through her astounding worldbuilding and Pratchett for his Douglas Adams style irreverence in genre fiction and his willingness to play with and make fun of traditional fantasy tropes that other authors take as holy writ.

Also of note is the Redwall series, though I'd be more willing to put them on the bad list than anything for their overt racism and simplistic plots.

The guy writing this list is piss poor in reviews, too. So much of what he writes comes across as author cocksucking rather than anything substantial. That's about 80% of his Game of Thrones review.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:45:00 No.14754010 Report

Quoted By: >>14754062

>>14753971
>he takes all game tie in novels, lumps them all together and then declares them crap
Seems like an appropriate declaration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:47:00 No.14754026 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753993
He does mention Le Guin and Pratchett in "Great fantasy books" and "Best fantasy series", respectively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:53:00 No.14754062 Report

Quoted By: >>14754160

>>14754010

>LOOK AT ME! I'M TROLLING YOU!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 00:55:00 No.14754073 Report

Quoted By: >>14754261

This thread will now take a brief detour into identifying the first lines of 'speculative fiction' (sci-fi's cool too) books.

"There was once, in the country of Alifbay, a sad city, the saddest of cities, a city so ruinously sad that it had forgotten its name."

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:08:00 No.14754160 Report

Quoted By: >>14754199

>>14754062
Okay, apparently it's trolling to say that game tie-in novels are universally shit.

Show me a good one. And no, whatever 40k "Tales of the 99th Blood Legion: Assault on Dark Soul Skull River" book you put out there is not an example of a good tie-in book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:13:00 No.14754199 Report

Quoted By: >>14754234

>>14754160
Subjectively, I enjoyed both the Ciaphas Cain novels and the Halo novels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:18:00 No.14754228 Report

Quoted By:

Let me just control F "Prince of Nothing."

Okay, I approve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:18:00 No.14754234 Report

Quoted By: >>14754274

>>14754199
Well, good for you. Just don't pretend that they're any good.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:20:00 No.14754245 Report

Quoted By: >>14754327 >>14754907 >>14754962 >>14755117

Read the original versions of the first 4 Dark Tower books. Then pretend Stephen King got killed by that van instead of having his "life altering experience" getting sober and being less of a douche.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:22:00 No.14754261 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754073
Is that how Haround and the Sea of Stories started? It's been so long...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:24:00 No.14754274 Report

Quoted By: >>14754301 >>14754326

>>14754234
Bro.

Good is subjective. He doesn't have to pretend shit.

Also, 90% of everything is shit. Probably 95% of tie-in fiction, just based on the underlying motivations for writing it.

But there's something hilariously myopic about people discussing a maligned literature genre, and then further declaring a subsection OF that genre to be be universally shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:29:00 No.14754301 Report

Quoted By: >>14755643

>>14754274
Bad writing is bad writing. Nothing subjective about it.

And I can't believe that fantasy franchise tie-ins are conducive to good writing. They might be competent and entertaining enough, after the fashion of superhero comics, but writing-to-order for someone else's setting isn't going to produce a really great book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:34:00 No.14754326 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754274
"Subjective" doesn't mean "unknowable," nor does it mean "meaningless" or "amorphous." It just means that it is at least partly an individualistic experience. We can evaluate a subjective experience and find its objective elements, and we can understand what makes a story or writing "good."

And when you get down to it these are shit books because they combine juvenile stories with confused and hackneyed writing. The reason people buy those books and find them enjoyable is because they find the story elements -- the 40k and Halo bits -- enjoyable.

Well, I find Whataburger cheeseburgers pretty tasty, but I don't sit around and pretend that they're quality food, either. It's a mass product, and there's very little else to it. Same goes for paperback pulp sci-fi.

As a 40k or Halo story, maybe they're really great. As a work of literature, I highly fucking doubt it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:34:00 No.14754327 Report

Quoted By: >>14754907

>>14754245
You could actually see point toward the end of the 5th book where is old material started to run out and his new dumber "banality of evil" stuff came in.

Also the character alterations to Flagg and CK made them not threatening in the least. I have the feeling that he realized all the shit he'd have to tie together like the billards club in New York with all the doors and the Eyes of the Dragon stuff would make the story 3 books longer, got scared and just said fuck it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:36:00 No.14754339 Report

Quoted By:

I really enjoyed Name of the Wind. I had a hard time putting it down. If you haven't grabbed that book yet, OP, I would suggest reading it.

Could someone explain to me why the Dresden Files are supposedly so good? I couldn't finish the first book. It reads at a fourth grade level and it's just bad. BAD!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:38:00 No.14754348 Report

Quoted By: >>14754370 >>14754423

Wheel of Time is really good.

*Spoilers* Although, Rand's little harem kind of pisses me off. No three women would agree to share a man like that and then be best friends with each other. Totally retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:39:00 No.14754350 Report

Quoted By:

>Ctrl + F "Robin Hobb"
>No matches

/tg/, I am dissapoint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:41:00 No.14754370 Report

Quoted By: >>14754423 >>14754494

>>14754348
I dunno, i've seen stranger things happen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:49:00 No.14754423 Report

Quoted By: >>14754441 >>14754446 >>14754504

>>14754370
>>14754348
The one thing women hate more than anything else is other women.

Guys hate the fuck out of each other all the time too. But it usually gets expressed openly as a fist fight, a constant two-name calling and practical jokes, or one party just fucks off and leaves.

Chicks are different, they tend to sit on their hate and let it simmer. Maybe they act catty to eachother from time to time, but it never gets let out until something snaps. Then a monumental amount of shit will hit the fan.

Harems just generally don't work if the characters acted remotely like real women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:52:00 No.14754441 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754423
Nah, this is just bullshit and generalizations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:52:00 No.14754446 Report

Quoted By: >>14754509

>>14754423

And they are their own women.

They're not even passive aggressive with each other. They all love each other to pieces.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 01:59:00 No.14754494 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754370
I could buy it maybe if he took a stab at developing the women's relationships in a natural fashion. But no, it's just "We're all prophesied to marry the same guy? Well I guess we'd better learn to get along."

That goes for most of the plot of The Wheel of Time, now I think about it.
"I'm destined to save the world? I guess I'd better learn how."
"The plot has stalled? Quick, what do the prophecies say?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:00:00 No.14754504 Report

Quoted By: >>14754516 >>14754603

>>14754423
I think you are confusing traits of women with traits commonly imparted upon women by western society. Anthropological studies have found several cultures in the past that operated successfully on a polygynistic society. There are still some places in the world today where "sister wives" and the like exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:01:00 No.14754509 Report

Quoted By: >>14754570

>>14754446
What. were they all friends for years then one day they said fuck it lets all be his girlfriend?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:01:00 No.14754516 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754504
Ok but take any woman raised in a monogamous society with basically modern mores and tell her she has to share her husband with two other women she's never met. See how well that goes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:08:00 No.14754570 Report

Quoted By: >>14754637

>>14754509

Not at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but I think he started banging some of them before they had even met each other in the book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:11:00 No.14754603 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754504
The reason for multiple wives in antiquity was due to the dangers of childbirth back then. From what you read about alot of the ancient societies the women would do it because they had to, especially for political reasons. But many of them didn't seem to be happy about having to do it.

Having two wives in a tribal setting doesn't mean they will like eachother, just that they are forced to get along by social conventions.

If you take it out of the context of any society, a female human is somewhat incapacitated for 3 months before childbearing and nearly a year afterwards by the infant. So she'd probably want all of the male's investment to be placed on her instead of anyone else and not amiable to other women being around. And so as to prevent a situation being jealous all the time might be selected for.

Now not all chicks will be like that, but alot of them appear to be regardless of the society or age. And biologically if makes sense for it to be that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:12:00 No.14754607 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753445
>simply because "world building" is the easiest part of fiction-writing.
I hope you don't actually believe that. While anyone can say "Elves are a dying race.Dwarves build big holes, but their greed makes them dig too deep. Humans are divided into several kingdoms, with stuff like medieval Europe and mongol horse tribes", so I suppose if you're just refering to the building of the foundations of the world you might be right. However, it's much more difficult to actually make a world feel real. While you dismiss it as "relatively simple techniques" one has to put thought into every aspect of the book. The world expresses it's self not just through descriptions but through the characters and he story themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:15:00 No.14754637 Report

Quoted By: >>14754639

>>14754570
Ow, worst possible scenario. If they were all friends and had eyes on him then maybe they could get along. But in this case you'd have 3 women thinking they were "the one" and combine that with realizing there boyfriend has been cheating. There isn't an umbrella big enough to keep you dry in a shitstorm like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:15:00 No.14754639 Report

Quoted By: >>14754669 >>14754687

>>14754637
It's cool, they cast a magic spell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:18:00 No.14754669 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754639

Ah, well then off ya go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:21:00 No.14754687 Report

Quoted By: >>14754717 >>14754719

>>14754639
So author fiat then?

"I like harem animus, because lottasa banging and lesbo overtones, I'll add that to the book."

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:24:00 No.14754717 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754687

It had to be because it honestly didn't add to the book at all in any way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:25:00 No.14754719 Report

Quoted By: >>14754763 >>14754772 >>14754791

>>14754687
This has got to be the main reason I don't like most fantasy. Authors just can't seem to keep their fetishes out of it.

Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" is a good example. Shadow is just going on his journey as normal when he has a random sex scene with Bast. There's no lead up to it and it doesn't have any impact on the story. It's just shoved in there for no reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:29:00 No.14754763 Report

Quoted By: >>14754779

>>14754719
The djinn cab driver scene was hot though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:31:00 No.14754772 Report

Quoted By: >>14754797 >>14754808

>>14754719
Except that Bast is a fertility goddess. It was part of her characterization. Each of the gods has a compulsion to embody their aspects that they represent.

And at least that one was "fade to black". The other sex scenes in that story were far more horrifying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:31:00 No.14754779 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754763
I see what you did there.

Or I would if my eyes weren't fiery spirits now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:33:00 No.14754791 Report

Quoted By: >>14754931

>>14754719

I think GRRM's sex scenes are half 'he got bored and wrote a sex scene' and half 'he wants to make us hate sex scenes.'

>Wipe moon blood with sleeve of stump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:34:00 No.14754797 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754772
>And at least that one was "fade to black"
If detailed descriptions of him exploring her pubic hair, his attempts to contain his orgasm and various other descriptions of the act itself count as "fade to black" for you, what do you think a sex scene is?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:36:00 No.14754808 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754772
>It was part of her characterization.
Bast in three acts:
>purr purr purr I'm sleep on your lap.
>hot sex
>purr purr purr

She really didn't have characterisation. She added nothing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:39:00 No.14754840 Report

Quoted By: >>14754907

> No Narnia
> No Dark Tower
> mfw

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:49:00 No.14754907 Report

Quoted By: >>14754984

>>14754840
>No Dark Tower
>>14754245
>>14754327

Hulk need read thread.

Also, I fucked your cousin and shot you into outer space. Problems, Banner?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:53:00 No.14754931 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754791
If that's his plan, he's succeeded.

>Can't sleep with prostitutes. Vagina will eat me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:57:00 No.14754962 Report

Quoted By: >>14754984 >>14755025 >>14755089 >>14755125

>>14754245

Yeah Wizard and Glass really is the pinnacle of the Dark Tower series. It was just amazing to that point.

I refuse to read the books following because it will ruin what I love and cherish in the first four. I've stomached his revision of the original Gunslinger title, but didn't like it.

I know the "ending" to how the story is written in the final books, but its pretty lame.

It's a story that is almost too big to be written by one person, but King came the closest to it.

He lost hold of what he had after book four though, they don't even read or feel the same after that, I started 5 and couldn't do it, didn't want to ruin it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 02:59:00 No.14754984 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754907

You apparently didn't read WWH where Banner ROYALLY fucked Stark up and made him fight to the death, then shit all over the sentry after that.

If not for fag sentry Stark, Richards, Dr. Strange and black bolt would be dead right now.

Get fucked Hulk is strongest there is.

I'm this guy btw, no samefagging, Hulk is just a total bro.

>>14754962

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:04:00 No.14755025 Report

Quoted By: >>14755125

>>14754962

The Callahan portion of book five as almost surely written years back and has the same feel.

But the menace taken out of Flagg really killed it. He was supposed to be killed by the Kid from Insomnia, but King dropped that idea. I also don't understand why he make the Crimson King so lame. You didn't need to fight him in the first place. He was locked away in the tower. And the monsters also became more life generic fantasy orcs than the lovecraftian things they were characterized before. And the tone shifted from "the Tower will almost certainly fall no matter what we do" to having it able to come back on it's own.

Really weird shift.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:12:00 No.14755089 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754962
Yeah, well...you girlfriend is dead! And you know who built the hyperdrive that blew up and killed her, in a cave with a boxful of scraps? DIZ GIA!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:15:00 No.14755117 Report

Quoted By: >>14755276 >>14755314

>>14754245
>Stephan King

Oh god. King is the... er king of injecting fetishes into his works.

WHY DID THEY NEED TO HAVE A PRE-PUBESCENT GANGBANG IN A SEWER? WHY KING WHY?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:16:00 No.14755125 Report

Quoted By: >>14755276

>>14754962
>>14755025
Didn't you love the ending? I mean, it was a massive finger to both Roland and the reader, but it influenced me and made me emote the way very few books did before. And it felt fulfilling thematically. It made me forget the lesser scope of tomes 5,6,7 instantly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:20:00 No.14755156 Report

Quoted By: >>14755376

Nice list, even if WoT is too high given its pacing problems. I'm particuarly glad to see Rothfuss, Sanderson and Cook up there.

Personally I've never been a big fan of the Dark Tower series.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:33:00 No.14755276 Report

Quoted By:

>>14755125

I didn't mind that Roland got the finger, was forever damned to search for the Tower, to save it, and be damned again. His entire character in the beginning was "I will reach the Tower". I just hated how they got to it. How it was saved with so little effort, when it was previously talked about a deep rot in the Tower itself that couldn't be fixed. Flagg, the guy that took a nuclear bomb to the face and a magic arrow through the eye, is just killed off for a new villain that is forgettable. The humanoid monsters are not monstrous anymore, despite being previously depicted as coming from some outer hell. And the Crimson King goes from ultimate eternal evil to nothing really. And the happy ending for the other characters, eh not my thing but plenty of other people wanted it. The succubus plot. King getting saved by them, I he had just killed himself off to emphasize there is nobody that can help them save the Tower that would have been fine.

Some good ideas, but just alot of bad, bad, bad ideas too.

>>14755117
I don't know if it is even a fetish. Sometimes their is weird instances of pederasty or homosexual stuff in books like tommy knockers. What to make something seem "deep" add sexual abuse/weird stuff as a substitution for character development.

FromABuick8 was probably his best recent work. And Christine probably had the most believable characterization. His sort stories are really his better works.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:36:00 No.14755314 Report

Quoted By: >>14755355 >>14755417

>>14755117
Someone else is the queen though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:40:00 No.14755355 Report

Quoted By: >>14755399

>>14755314

Anne Rice?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:43:00 No.14755376 Report

Quoted By:

>>14755156
Well there aren't as many fans as there were before 2000

Wastelands comes out, this is the best thing ever!
Song of Susannah comes out, this is the worst thing ever.

Such promise, and such disappointment. I have never heard anyone with a negative opinion of Wastelands unless it was about the cliffhanger ending. TEN YEARS ON A FUCKING TRAIN!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:45:00 No.14755399 Report

Quoted By:

>>14755355
Ann Rice is another example of shit going down hill.

Interview with a Vampire was ok. Then vampires became superheros with scanner powers. This could make vampires really awesome or really stupid. She chose option B.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 03:46:00 No.14755417 Report

Quoted By: >>14755654

>>14755314
Any time "rule of cool" or "it's just fun" or "stop liking what I don't like" is used, people should be reminded that it also fucking applies to Twilight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 04:13:00 No.14755643 Report

Quoted By:

>>14754301
>And I can't believe that fantasy franchise tie-ins are conducive to good writing

Next level snobs can just remove "Franchise tie-ins".

Snobs within snobs...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 04:14:00 No.14755654 Report

Quoted By:

>>14755417
Shit is shit. Now some people like shit. And everybody has some shit they don't mind. But when 90% of the population recognize the turd for what it is, you liking that particular turd will not make it any less a peace of shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Apr 2011 04:21:00 No.14755717 Report

Quoted By:

>>14753971

Game-related novels *are* crap, though, the vast majority of the time; trying to wade through every single one to find the few shining gems is only very rarely worth your time, and Salvatore is a prime example of this.

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