/u/ - Yuri » Thread #1058268

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 03:49:00 No.1058268 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>1058336 >>1058342 >>1086303

Is Takarazuka considered /u/?
I read an interesting passage Donald Richie's The Japan Journals, where in 1958 Romola Nijinsky (widow of a famous ballet dancer) had an affair with a Takarazuka performer named Harumi.
It got me thinking about the possibility of another more...bawdy side to Takarazuka.
Thoughts? I'll talk more if people are interested.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 03:59:00 No.1058269 Report

Quoted By: >>1058271

Talk more because I'm interested.

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:06:00 No.1058271 Report

Quoted By: >>1058273

>>1058269
Aw, you're sweet.
Anyways, last October I was in Tokyo and decided to see the Takarazuka.
I saw a performance of The Gypsy Baron along with a revue called Rhapsodic Moon.
You can not imagine how many women were at the show. I was one of very very few men, and my girlfriend and I made one of the even fewer non-Japanese there.
I couldn't help but muse on the sexuality that was there, but not really discussed. After all, Takarazuka is considered wholesome entertainment, and many people don't see much sexuality behind the high-school play kisses and pancake make-up.
And yet, there was a feeling I had, of something hidden and not discussed, made all the more fascinating by the light and music.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:09:00 No.1058273 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058271
>>Women make up the primary audience of Takarazuka; in fact, some estimates say the audience is 90 percent female.[5] There exist two primary theories as to what draws these women to Takarazuka. One is that the women are drawn to its inherent lesbian overtones. One author states, “It was not masculine sexuality which attracted the Japanese girl audience but it was feminine eroticism”.

According to Wikipedia, you're not alone there.

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:14:00 No.1058275 Report

Quoted By:

Oh, and another bit of weirdness.
There were posters all over Tokyo for a Takarazuka rendition of An Officer and a Gentleman.
Yeah. Make of that what you will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:19:00 No.1058277 Report

Quoted By: >>1058321

There was an interesting documentary of it I saw in film class for college. Preview of it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YLKo8Nzsg). Don't know if the full-length can be found of it. You can see Japanese women openly raving over it.

Film class prof had some really interesting choices for us to watch, being openly gay and "married" to a lesbian Hollywood screenwriter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:25:00 No.1058285 Report

Quoted By: >>1058289 >>1058290

i'm surprised no one made a shoujo yuri anime or manga series based on this

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:30:00 No.1058289 Report

Quoted By: >>1058294

>>1058285

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:32:00 No.1058290 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058285
Exactly! You'd think that what with the pretty girls, backstage drama, and other crap and Takarazuka would be ripe material for such stories.
Maybe since Takarazuka is considered "wholesome", it's considered off limits. Or maybe there's just no English info on this sorta thing.
I talked briefly to a Japanese woman and she mentioned how a high school friend of her's went off to join the troupe as a male actor. She said she was beautiful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 04:44:00 No.1058294 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058289
i'm talking about a yuri series all about the Takurazuka

it'll be like a yuri/reverse trap version of Glass Mask

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 05:12:00 No.1058309 Report

Quoted By:

>>The first year, all women train together before being divided by the faculty and the current troupe members into otokoyaku and musumeyaku at the end of the year. Those playing otokoyaku cut their hair short, take on a more masculine role in the classroom, and speak in the masculine form.

Interesting.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 05:41:00 No.1058319 Report

Quoted By: >>1058339

Please tell me more, Op. This is intriguing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 05:44:00 No.1058321 Report

Quoted By: >>1058333 >>1058359

>>1058277
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YLKo8Nzsg
Moar

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:06:00 No.1058333 Report

Quoted By: >>1058359

>>1058321
why had I never heard of this before?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:17:00 No.1058336 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058268
>in 1958 Romola Nijinsky (widow of a famous ballet dancer) had an affair with a Takarazuka performer named Harumi.

I couldn't find any info about that online.
Does anybody know more?

Jinmen

Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:18:00 No.1058339 Report

Quoted By: >>1058345 >>1058358

>>1058319
Here's a little more from Donal Richie's journal. This is set in Japan, 1958.
The conversation is between Donald Richie, an American journalist that came to Japan after the war, and Romola, an aged widow of a Russian ballet dancer who is seeing a Tarazuka performer named Harumi,.
"One embrace. After the cape [I gave her}. That is all"
"Romola, you are very slow," I said. "At your age..."
"My age. That is the problem." She looked at me, her eyes bleak. "When my age and then love comes you must not hurt it, you must shelter it," and she folded her hands as though they contained a bird. "It is precious. It is all that I have." Then recovering some animation, "How do they do it, Japanese girls?"

To be continued.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:19:00 No.1058342 Report

Quoted By: >>1058348

>>1058268
why are they more elegant and FABULOUS than real men?!!

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:25:00 No.1058345 Report

Quoted By: >>1058352 >>1058358

>>1058339
Richie: "Well, I don't know...fingers maybe?"
"No, that I know. The occasion, I mean."
"Maybe you ought to be firm."
"She says she wants to go to Paris..."
"That's it, Romola. You take her to Paris, you lock her up at the Ritz or somewhere, and you have your way."
"But what will she think?"
"Romola! She's in the Takarazuka. This will come as no surprise to her. All the girls must know about it after the first week."

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:29:00 No.1058348 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058342

That reaction is why Takarazuka is as popular as it is. The otokoyaku are an idealized masculine image, a fantasy that real men can never equal.

Jinmen

Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:34:00 No.1058352 Report

Quoted By: >>1058358

>>1058345
I heard nothing further. Then a friend called to my attention a small news item. One Takaoka Harumi, deported from France where she had been living Had run up massive bills at Le Printemps and others of the grand magazins. Curious, I tried to discover where Romola was... Months later a friend told me he had seen Romola at a spa in Austria. ...She had again transformed back into a witch, And she was wearing a veil, they said. And when asked if someone were dead, she answered that, yes, someone was.

That's the end of that story. Richie recounts a few other stories, like how Truman Capote complained about how he wasn't able to find a "tenpenny cock".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:38:00 No.1058358 Report

Quoted By: >>1058361

>>1058339
>>1058345
>>1058352

Very interesting. Thank you for the info.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:41:00 No.1058359 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058321
>>1058333
I haven't installed to test this out, but the whole thing may be here - http://www.divxmovieshare.com/file.php?film=118822. Let me know if this works.

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 06:48:00 No.1058361 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058358
Glad you liked it.
A few times I stayed at the Imperial Hotel, which was just across the street from the Tokyo Takarazuka Theater. And early in the morning you would see, literally, hundreds of women standing outside the theater. Young, old, all sorts. I asked the concierge if they were there to get tickets and he said no, they wait there so they can see the actresses enter and exit the building.
Years later when I went to a performance, I noticed that women would dress in matching sweaters as part of fan clubs for favorite actresses.

Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:26:00 No.1058385 Report

Quoted By: >>1058610

I'm convinced by the way that there's an untapped market outside of Japan for this. I was talked into (long story) wearing a tailored man's suit by my girlfriend for somewhat formal functions with dancing in the US., Germany, France and Moscow. I looked OK, nothing amazing, and I'm only an adequate dancer, yet the amount of positive attention from women was surprising (and well, kind of uncomfortable), especially from what were presumably straight), married women. Put some really great looking women in suits with superb dancing and singing, and I think they'd eat it up.

Jinmen

Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:36:00 No.1058393 Report

Quoted By: >>1058405

Apparently there was a performance of a Takarazuka show at Rockefeller Center in the 80's, but I don't know of any other US performances.
There was also a short tour in Europe in the late 90's. The performers were perplexed that the only people that covered it were lesbian/gay magazines and press.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:49:00 No.1058404 Report

Quoted By: >>1058407 >>1058431

Why did you have to remind me of this OP? Whyyyy?

I like Takarazuka with a passion. But whenever I'd remember that it is made to make women into better housewives instead of independent women. I feel pissed. Here we have women who are able to live independently from men, but in the end they are forced by society to marry a guy. Not to mention women also hides the fact that they like Takarazuka from their husbands because they fear that the men will get jealous.

Stupid society. This is why we can't have good things.

Anonymous

Three points

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:52:00 No.1058405 Report

Quoted By: >>1058407

>>1058393
Only gay celebrities in Japan are actually straight.

Where is the screen cap with Rei and Usagi?

Remember in Hourou Musuko, Takatsuki's dad is a huge fan of Takarazuka, and thinks his transgendered daughter wants to join them despite her never giving any indication of doing that. I guess it's acceptable to be a straight guy and like them.

Jinmen

Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:57:00 No.1058407 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058404
The stories of Takarazuka are undoubtedly hetero-normative, but I can't help but imagine that it plants something in Japanese minds. Like there is a larger world out there, and Takarazuka sits on the border.
Then again, the Japanese view of homosexuality can go all over the place. Just read some Yukio Mishima.

>>1058405
Some fathers of male Takarazuka actors brag about their daughters like they were sons.

Jinmen

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Jinmen Mon 06 Jun 2011 07:59:00 No.1058408 Report

Quoted By:

Here's a great article on Takarazuka from the zine Electric Ant.
http://electricantzine.com/ea2-revue.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 08:15:00 No.1058417 Report

Quoted By:

Are there any recent performance from them? The latest I've been seeing are from 2003-2004. ;_;

Mon 06 Jun 2011 08:37:00 No.1058431 Report

Quoted By: >>1058441

>>1058404
I hope you realize being independent and strong don't automatically make you gay

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 08:50:00 No.1058441 Report

Quoted By: >>1058444

>>1058431
Who said I'm talking about the gay levels? Anyhow, if not for the stupid society of Japan we'd have more yuri. Damn shrimp dicks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 08:59:00 No.1058444 Report

Quoted By: >>1058610

>>1058441
More =/= better. I'm fine with the level it's at. I wish more for better novels that include lesbian characters here in the west. Like those cheap throwaway books about a woman falling in love with a werewolf. Five thousand a year, practically, and I've yet to find one with lesbians.

Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 09:05:00 No.1058448 Report

Quoted By:

Japan's patriarchal society probably has a lot to do with Takarazuka's popularity, so I'm not surprised that it didn't get much traction in Europe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 09:15:00 No.1058456 Report

Quoted By:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU744V9BWkw&feature=related

Please tell me that I'm not the only one who squealed when I watched this. I need to retain my manliness even if just a little bit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 09:36:00 No.1058469 Report

Quoted By: >>1059287

Pixiv tag for takarazuka: 宝塚

I don't know about you guys but I'd rather think and ship them off like usual charas in a movie/show. Also, there's a surprising amount of takarazuka fanart.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 10:18:00 No.1058507 Report

Quoted By: >>1058534

This is the best picture I've seen so far.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 10:23:00 No.1058512 Report

Quoted By:

Just in case someone complains of lack of "yuri"

Ryoko

Ryoko Mon 06 Jun 2011 10:44:00 No.1058534 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058507

I wish David really did that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 12:02:00 No.1058570 Report

Quoted By:

Dumpin.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 12:03:00 No.1058572 Report

Quoted By:

These are girls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3YMz9d1pRc

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 12:50:00 No.1058599 Report

Quoted By: >>1058616 >>1059859 >>1060449

I find the line between wholesomeness and deviancy in Takarazuka interesting. Like how the troupe really was somehow supposed to create better housewives for imperial Japan by idealizing butch/femme relationships, but found it scandalous when two early performers were in a relationship. Or this pic, where despite its wholesomeness, a mainstream kids' series can use it to imply queerness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 13:11:00 No.1058610 Report

Quoted By: >>1058618

>>1058385

I would just like to point out that the West does have its own variations, some of which precede Takarazuka. In the early cinema, you have Marlene Dietrich's performance in Morocco where she charms men and their wives alike, and the crossdressing play in Madchen in Uniform. In the 80's you had Julie Andrews' excellent performance in Victor Victoria. Long before that, however, you have "Following in Father's Footsteps" performed in dance halls by famous male impersonator, Vesta Tilley, by as early as 1906. For those of you have seen Tipping the Velvet, Tilley's act was the basis for the same one that Kitty and Nan perform.

There are also drag kings of course, but in a cruel twist of fate, anything that hints at alternative sexuality gets swathed with gay stigma, instead of being presented as a show for anyone who is interested, regardless of gender or sexuality. You can't even run a JC Penny print ad with some little boy getting painted with nail polish without some nutjobs making a fuss about the scary gays.

>>1058444

They actually make a bunch of those. There are whole gay-only publishers and gay only literary awards. http://www.lambdaliterary.org/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 13:27:00 No.1058616 Report

Quoted By: >>1058632

>>1058599

That's because people in Japan and the West alike are typically fine with crossdressing as a source of entertainment or humour. Japan seems to tolerate yuri because of the belief that the bonds formed between young girls are class S relationships or simply schoolgirl crushes that they will one day transcend. However, as soon as actual homosexuality is implied, down comes the hammer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 13:41:00 No.1058618 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058610
There's also a tradition of cross-gender casting in Western theater starting in ancient Greece, where all roles were played by men. The same famously applied to the Elizabethan stage, where Shakespeare had lots of fun by having boys play female characters who pretended to be men. These days, when women tend to play the female roles, this results in a different kind of genderbending. Certain male roles are also sometimes played by women, like Hamlet. Sarah Bernhardt was famous for the role, and was actually the first Hamlet on film in 1900: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp_v_dP8s-8 (ignore the watermark).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 13:49:00 No.1058620 Report

Quoted By: >>1058630

Weren't they made fun of by Ouran anyway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 14:25:00 No.1058630 Report

Quoted By: >>1058632 >>1058650 >>1059559

>>1058620
>Made fun

Oh come on how can you not laugh and appreciate this? I don't really think they're aiming to insult yuri/takarazuka fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDcO17GKWik&feature=related

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 14:34:00 No.1058632 Report

Quoted By: >>1058645 >>1058650

>>1058616
>However, as soon as actual homosexuality is implied, down comes the hammer.
The art lies in avoiding the hammer through subtlety and working in genres that are less monitored than others. Two magical girls in a socially acceptable Class S relationship? Just make one episode where they make it clear they won't stop their relationship in the future.

>>1058630
While this probably doesn't quite have the same meaning in Japan as it would in the West, it's still nasty.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 15:21:00 No.1058645 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058632
Actual femnazis? Ho-ho-ho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 15:47:00 No.1058650 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058630
>>1058632
I swear, you can make an entire spinoff series based on them, and it will be AWESOME

not to mention it'll be a far more tasteful yuri parody series than Maria Holic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 19:21:00 No.1058742 Report

Quoted By: >>1058917

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdZ3zMArO98&NR=1

in native enviroments.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 23:08:00 No.1058892 Report

Quoted By:

Benibara is glorious.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Jun 2011 23:24:00 No.1058917 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058742
This is it. This is the best thing.

I've been a weeaboo for many years but this is the first time something has actually made me sad I don't live in Japan

Jinmen

Jinmen Tue 07 Jun 2011 01:56:00 No.1059085 Report

Quoted By:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooMDsUtQFVs
One of my favorite songs, from Elisabeth.
Death looks a bit like Alucard from Castlevania.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:19:00 No.1059281 Report

Quoted By:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP6Ud-FNJ10&feature=related

I don't know why I like this song. Most of the song in this play is beautiful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:30:00 No.1059287 Report

Quoted By: >>1059292

>>1058469
WILL BE SEARCHING
This thread has caught my interest, especially since I'm a big fan of reverse traps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:36:00 No.1059292 Report

Quoted By: >>1059294

>>1059287
No prob. Incidentally does anyone here knows the pixiv tag for reverse traps?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:39:00 No.1059294 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059292
Not sure,I'll see if I can find it though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:55:00 No.1059300 Report

Quoted By:

Went pixiving, dumping what I've got.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:56:00 No.1059301 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:56:00 No.1059302 Report

Quoted By: >>1059314

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:57:00 No.1059303 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:58:00 No.1059305 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 04:59:00 No.1059307 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:00:00 No.1059309 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:01:00 No.1059311 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:01:00 No.1059312 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:02:00 No.1059313 Report

Quoted By: >>1059315

And that's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:03:00 No.1059314 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059302
>Jojo genderbended
>Under tag of Takarazuka???

Hahaha
Holy wat

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:05:00 No.1059315 Report

Quoted By: >>1059554

>>1059313
You got more misses than hits. Here let me help you.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:06:00 No.1059316 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:07:00 No.1059317 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:08:00 No.1059318 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:09:00 No.1059319 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:10:00 No.1059320 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:11:00 No.1059321 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:12:00 No.1059323 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 05:14:00 No.1059324 Report

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Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 09:48:00 No.1059521 Report

Quoted By: >>1059556

Whoa, how surreal to see a Takarazuka thread here on /u/. This has been my main fandom for almost two years, though I'm only just seeing a performance live for the first time this summer.

Possibly relevant to yo/u/r interests, here's a song performed by a Takarazuka top male-role/female-role combination after they retired from Takarazuka:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LXDexHS4bs

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 10:55:00 No.1059554 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059315

Osa, mai waifu. ;_;

Tue 07 Jun 2011 10:57:00 No.1059556 Report

Quoted By: >>1059570

>>1059521

What show are you seeing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jun 2011 11:04:00 No.1059559 Report

Quoted By:

>>1058630

I didn't notice how many clever references to real fans/takarasiennes were in that clip the first time I saw it. Interesting.

Tue 07 Jun 2011 11:31:00 No.1059570 Report

Quoted By: >>1059799

>>1059556
I'm hoping to see Hoshigumi's 'Lancelot'.

Jinmen

Jinmen Wed 08 Jun 2011 00:06:00 No.1059799 Report

Quoted By: >>1059972

>>1059570
Are you going to the Tokyo theater or Takarazuka proper?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 01:13:00 No.1059848 Report

Quoted By: >>1059853 >>1059859 >>1059862 >>1061014 >>1061664

I have a question for /u/:

Is there any relation between the play on masculine and feminine in Takarazuka and the creation of androgynous characters like Oscar from Rose of Versailles, Kaoru and Rei from Oniisama E, Haruka from Sailor Moon, etc.? Is Takarazuka the cultural inspiration for these characters?

I ask, because they seem to function at the same level in that they are both androgynous yet distinctly feminine, and at the same time are highly glamourized. Someone mentioned that Takarazuka are the epitome of the masculine ideal, but they seem to be the epitome of the feminine ideal (beauty, elegance, grace) as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 01:20:00 No.1059853 Report

Quoted By: >>1059931

>>1059848
Short answer, probably. Takarazuka Revue has been part of the culture for a long time. Early 1900s and even before that, the original kabuki in the 1600s which were all women before they banned it and made it all men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 01:23:00 No.1059854 Report

Quoted By:

Oh and Rose of Versailles is one of their most popular performances, by the way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 01:29:00 No.1059859 Report

Quoted By: >>1059931

>>1059848
There's certainly lots of intertextuality going on there. Takarazuka has performed Rose of Versailles several times, with Oscar being played by an otokoyaku. Sailor Moon also linked the girls' admiration of (desire for) Haruka to Takarazuka, as can be seen in >>1058599 . I'm not sure if Takarazuka can be credited as originating the idea in Japanese culture (Tomoe Gozen was essentially the perfect combination of man and woman already in the 12th century), but they've influenced the characters you mention.

Jinmen

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO uranus.jpg, 327KiB, 1061x1541

Jinmen Wed 08 Jun 2011 01:45:00 No.1059862 Report

Quoted By: >>1059931 >>1060442

>>1059848
I think I read somewhere that Naoko Takeuchi originally intended for Haruka to be a Takarazuka actress.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 03:47:00 No.1059931 Report

Quoted By: >>1060023

>>1059853
>>1059859
>>1059862

Thanks, /u/. I knew there was interplay between the two, but determining causality would be interesting.

I am curious if the female androgyny is part of a larger cultural phenomenon, or if it's confined to things like Takarazuka and only a small selection of manga (Takeuchi, Riyoko Ikeda, Chiho Saito, Oyuki Konno & Reine Hibiki, being the most notorious creators of androgynous characters that come to mind).

From what I've seen there tends to be a good number of female characters who are strong or adept in combat, but they tend for the most part to be distinctly feminine in appearance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 05:12:00 No.1059972 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059799
'Lancelot' is only being performed in Bow Hall (smaller theatre), so I'll be in Takarazuka.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 05:48:00 No.1059991 Report

Quoted By: >>1060027

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnefUaKCbc

what is this is this i don't even

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1284024026250.png, 394KiB, 444x580

Anonymous Wed 08 Jun 2011 07:31:00 No.1060023 Report

Quoted By:

Omg omg I love Takarazuka. Surprising to see it here on /u/ for some reason -- I mean sure it's related, but I'd given up hope of finding delicious reverse-traps here.

Tell me the Phoenix Wright one has already been posted. At 1:24 she starts to sing and my jaw dropped the first time I heard it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMPKpyvgMm4

>>1059931
Sadly I've not seen much in the way of female androgyny in Japanese culture aside from fringe things like this opera, some rare manga and the odd reverse-trap host club or visual kei band.

Now if you want to talk about the Asian cultural phenomenon of girls dressing up as idealized boys, this is a very big thing in China/Taiwan, so much so that there are "drag king" stores in Taiwan catering specifically to crossdressing girls. Usually the more visible girls are models/singers/fashion students and you can even see some of the more popular reverse-traps advertising drinks and candy on TV.

Wed 08 Jun 2011 07:38:00 No.1060027 Report

Quoted By: >>1060037

>>1059991
What does Janelle Monae have to do with Takarazuka?

Jinmen

Jinmen Wed 08 Jun 2011 07:59:00 No.1060037 Report

Quoted By: >>1060041

>>1060027
At a glance? Nothing.
But now that I think about it, she does have some Takarazuka elements.
Masculine clothing.
B0mbastic musical style
Her album Archandroid is fantastical enough to be a manga or a play.

Wed 08 Jun 2011 08:06:00 No.1060041 Report

Quoted By: >>1060049

>>1060037
...Huh, you're right. She does want to make videos for all of the songs in suites II and III, which is fantastic. The concerts, though...man, I want a video for Sincerely, Jane just so I can be able to replay that performance any time without low video and audio quality.

I wonder if she knows about Takarazuka. It's possible that she might, but it would be strange for a sci-fi geek to be weeaboo, and even weirder for them to be weeaboo enough to know about Takarazuka's existence. Excluding Phoenix Wright fans, of course.

Jinmen

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO phantom1.jpg, 144KiB, 535x394

Jinmen Wed 08 Jun 2011 08:27:00 No.1060046 Report

Quoted By:

My dream Takarazuka play would be an adaptation of Phantom of the Paradise.
Considering that An Officer And a Gentleman was adapted, I don't think Phantom is too far fetched.

Wed 08 Jun 2011 08:41:00 No.1060049 Report

Quoted By: >>1060059

>>1060041
She might actually be a weeaboo.
>"There was a lot of confusion and nonsense where I grew up, so I reacted by creating my own little world ... I began to see how music could change lives, and I began to dream about a world where every day was like anime and Broadway, where music fell from the sky and anything could happen." -- Janelle Monae, in her Atlantic Records bio, 2008.
http://randb.about.com/od/alternativerbartists/p/JanelleMonae.htm

Wed 08 Jun 2011 09:23:00 No.1060059 Report

Quoted By:

>>1060049
I am more than okay with this! I must say, it feels strange, living in a world where celebrities can say they like anime in any situation and not be mocked for liking those silly Chinese sex cartoons.

Sorry for interrupting the Takarazuka thread, guys.

Wed 08 Jun 2011 11:18:00 No.1060103 Report

Quoted By:

According the wikipedia their audience is 90% female and they've had to limit the homoeroticism and contact with audience for fear they would make girls catch the gay.
Huh.

Seems like the exact opposite of the reason they banned women from Kabuki.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 03:35:00 No.1060370 Report

Quoted By:

this needs to be seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eaE6F_WYvM

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 05:35:00 No.1060409 Report

Quoted By:

>I guess it's acceptable to be a straight guy and like them.

It's not unusual. Osamu Tezuka (for example) left a small fortune to the troupe in his will.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1235441900425.jpg, 104KiB, 840x606

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 07:15:00 No.1060442 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059862

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 07:29:00 No.1060449 Report

Quoted By: >>1060463 >>1060650

>>1058599

Oh Rei. So closeted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 07:51:00 No.1060463 Report

Quoted By: >>1060487

>>1060449
*A-Hem*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLru2Icf8c

I wonder if there would ever be a Takarazuka Sailor Moon, or if that would be redundant since it had it's own musical shows.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 08:30:00 No.1060487 Report

Quoted By: >>1060650

>>1060463
It would be redundant due to the lack of male characters in the show! There is one recurring male character.

And the visiting bad guy males- half of them looked like women anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 13:23:00 No.1060650 Report

Quoted By: >>1060651

>>1060449
Usagi's the last person who should make fun of others for being closeted, though. Someone post the collage of the scene where Ami's surprised when Usagi claims to be straight.

>>1060487
The Sailor Moon live action musicals often had women playing men, and not just the really effeminate ones. Some of the shows were actually pretty good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jun 2011 13:27:00 No.1060651 Report

Quoted By:

>>1060650

Since when has self awareness been a part of Usagi's character?

They were all pretty closeted though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jun 2011 06:14:00 No.1061014 Report

Quoted By:

>>1059848
I'm not sure, but probably. Looking at this thread and learning more about takarazuka makes me realize it had a strong influence on Utena though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 11 Jun 2011 11:18:00 No.1061664 Report

Quoted By: >>1061784

>>1059848

Ryoko Ikeda is a HUGE Takarazuka fan and her works are littered with Takarazuka references... I think it's a safe assumption to make with her characters at least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Jun 2011 18:44:00 No.1061784 Report

Quoted By: >>1061825 >>1061942 >>1074118

>>1061664

Shimura's one too. I mean, just acknowledge her new manga, /u/: http://matt-thorn.com/wordpress/?p=522

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 11 Jun 2011 20:35:00 No.1061825 Report

Quoted By:

>>1061784
So this manga is about such school for such actresses?

But there's a guy in that pic...
Or 'he' is a female just dressed as a guy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jun 2011 00:54:00 No.1061942 Report

Quoted By: >>1061955 >>1064313

>>1061784

I completely forgot that this was coming out! Going to go read it and maybe try to find someone to edit for me if there's enough yuri potential.

I also agree that Shimura may be a Takarazuka fan, what with the all girl play in Aoi Hana and Yoshino's father's insistence of joining the troupe in Hourou Musuko. But then, I think it's natural to associate Takarazuka with female homoromantic/erotic tension.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jun 2011 01:28:00 No.1061955 Report

Quoted By: >>1061965

>>1061942
>it's natural to associate Takarazuka with female homoromantic/erotic tension.
Is this guy, Thorn, telling the truth? That if you actually associate one with the other, grim people in black suits will come and make your life x10 harder?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jun 2011 01:47:00 No.1061965 Report

Quoted By: >>1062182

>>1061955

I doubt it. I'm no Takarazuka buff, but I've heard plenty of people making jokes about it in Japan, and I believe connotations is blatantly obvious to most people. As someone mentioned in this thread, the Takarazuka stereotype tend to get played into lesbianism for fun a lot, and even applied straight in cases like Haruka from Sailor Moon and worldview of Utena.

It's probably true that they don't exactly appreciate the association, but what company likes to be associated with something that may potentially harm sales and image? I think the article was making a big deal out of nothing (or next to nothing, at most). Japan may be weird but we're not that backwards.

Sun 12 Jun 2011 11:18:00 No.1062182 Report

Quoted By:

>>1061965

It's fine to joke about it, but to insinuate there are lesbian fans that are actually sexually attracted to the actresses or *GASP* actual lesbian siennes is pretty looked down upon. Mostly in the Japanese fandom but you see it in the Western fandom too.

It's an obviously-gay-but-don't-say-it thing, imo.
-takarazuka fan

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 15:00:00 No.1063451 Report

Quoted By: >>1063457 >>1063465 >>1063526

Its weird that "Straight" women are attracted to crossdressing women.

A troupe of male performers would never attract anywhere close to a 90%+ male audience, even if they were traps. Actually, if they were traps it would be even more impossible since it is far easier for women to crossdress than men. You would never be able to get dozens of good looking traps together to perform a play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 15:27:00 No.1063457 Report

Quoted By:

>>1063451
Well, we live in a pretty homophobic society. Back in Shakespeare's day, all female roles were played by boys, and it wasn't uncommon for the men in the audience to find them totally hot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 15:35:00 No.1063465 Report

Quoted By: >>1063486

>>1063451
>A troupe of male performers would never attract anywhere close to a 90%+ male audience, even if they were traps.

I consider it your guess unless you actually conducted this experiment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 16:08:00 No.1063486 Report

Quoted By: >>1063489 >>1063492

>>1063465
The only way i can see a troupe who's gimmick is "We are all male" attracting males is if they do some really bad ass berserk style play.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 16:18:00 No.1063489 Report

Quoted By: >>1063490 >>1063494

>>1063486
Or just watch your average football/rugby/boxing matches. Males attracting male audience. And I wonder why they say I'm not manly for not liking those guys-slamming-guys-while-sweating-heavily activities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 16:24:00 No.1063490 Report

Quoted By: >>1063491

>>1063489
Right but the appeal for those is the competition aspect, not men touching other men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 16:32:00 No.1063491 Report

Quoted By:

>>1063490
Oh, Anonymous. How delightfully naive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 16:35:00 No.1063492 Report

Quoted By:

>>1063486
Or, alternatively, you do something outrageously camp and get an audience full of gay men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 17:01:00 No.1063494 Report

Quoted By: >>1063505

>>1063489
>football
>all about sweaty men touching each other
Wait what? Since when is football even remotely a contact sport?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 17:29:00 No.1063505 Report

Quoted By: >>1063509

>>1063494
Maybe they meant American football.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 17:36:00 No.1063509 Report

Quoted By:

>>1063505
In soccer, one only hugs their teammates, of course. See the comments: http://ontd-football.livejournal.com/2053653.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 18:36:00 No.1063526 Report

Quoted By: >>1063531

>>1063451
Oh lol. For what it's worth, when they outlawed women from performing kabuki (the performers were also available for sexual services and there were riots breaking out over guys wanting the same performer), they switched to all-male casts. This was much much worse as the female roles were now performed by young boys who were also, still, available for rent after the show. Even more rioting. I think they forbade anyone but adult men from acting in kabuki after this.

As for modern-day Takarazuka I read that it was considered relatively harmless for young girls to have attachments to crossdressing women, as this was thought of as a transitional high-school-crush phase that they would outgrow as they matured.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 18:48:00 No.1063531 Report

Quoted By: >>1064040

>>1063526
Most Takarazuka fans are long past high school, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 14 Jun 2011 19:23:00 No.1063541 Report

Quoted By:

http://matt-thorn.com/wordpress/?p=522

somewhat topic-related

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Jun 2011 15:09:00 No.1064040 Report

Quoted By:

>>1063531
What was that one-shot about an old woman who died but came back possessing her grandson to finish her Takarazuka seasonal pass? And that grandson was a rock singer who hated Takarazuka?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Jun 2011 06:04:00 No.1064313 Report

Quoted By: >>1064525 >>1064845

>>1061942
Shimura's new project is said to have a character from Aoi Hana in it.

Do you guys think it'll be Ryoko after a time skip, or Yasuko or "Catherine" back from England?

They're the only ones who can act, although I don't think Yasuko would want to relive her role as a prince.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Aoi_Hana_ch37_19.jpg, 76KiB, 404x424

Anonymous Thu 16 Jun 2011 18:58:00 No.1064525 Report

Quoted By: >>1064845

>>1064313
Must be Ryoko. But she can't be let go until she's done making Akira phone straps for the whole /u/.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 16 Jun 2011 19:36:00 No.1064538 Report

Quoted By:

I like to think androgyny can sometimes function as a trigger for any homosexual feelings one might have that are being drowned out by the media's heteronormativity. If straightness is all you see on TV and in your immediate environment, a bit of genderfucking can be that tiny little shift in your brain that could uncover some other feelings. Not for everyone, obviously. And that heteronormativity has gotten better over the years. But we're not there yet by a long shot.

In the mean time: Yay, gorgeous women!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Jun 2011 19:42:00 No.1064543 Report

Quoted By:

Every wagon of every train I was on in Osaka had ads for these shows. Insanely popular, there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jun 2011 02:30:00 No.1064845 Report

Quoted By: >>1064920

>>1064313
>>1064525
Nah, Ryoko's too busy trying to NTR Fumi. Personally, I hope it's Chizuru.

After her last appearance in Aoi Hana she goes home to her living hell as a lesbian in a straight marriage, develops a Takarazuka obsession and has a torrid affair with one of the actoresses-in-training. She doesn't tell the young girl that she's married and leaves her publicly humiliated and heartbroken when it all blows up in their faces.

And once again, Chizu-chan will be /u/'s most hated lesbian ever. Bonus points if there's cake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jun 2011 03:45:00 No.1064920 Report

Quoted By: >>1064963

>>1064845
>implying Chizu's not bisexual and just regrets hurting Fumi
>implying Ryoko's a lesbian

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jun 2011 05:49:00 No.1064963 Report

Quoted By: >>1064972

>>1064920
>implying Chizu's not bisexual
Yes. That's the impression I got from her last appearance. Don't worry anon, just because you have a different opinion doesn't make you a bad person.

Incidentally: Ah-chan's father directly references Takarazuka in chapter 9, making a comparison with the audiences reaction to Sugimoto's appearance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Jun 2011 06:27:00 No.1064972 Report

Quoted By:

>>1064963
Ah-chan has a father?!?!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 26 Jun 2011 09:38:00 No.1069147 Report

Quoted By: >>1073766 >>1082509

bumping so I can read before purge

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 01:55:00 No.1073766 Report

Quoted By:

>>1069147
Same here, got work to do tomorrow so I'm bumping for later read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 07 Jul 2011 21:22:00 No.1074118 Report

Quoted By:

>>1061784
Does anyone know if the protagonist's first name is Wakaba or Wakana? And whether the surname is Tabata or Tabatake?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 00:29:00 No.1074242 Report

Quoted By:

Also if anyone is interested in watching Takarazuka subtitled then check out the takarazuka insanity project, you have to pay for the dvds to be sent out but it's pretty cheap: http://ti-project.livejournal.com/

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO awajima-hyakkei-ch01-p01.png, 76KiB, 500x709

One Hundred Views of Awajima, chapter 1

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 03:26:00 No.1074311 Report

Quoted By: >>1074316 >>1074317 >>1074370 >>1074645 >>1074737

I translated and edited the first chapter of Shimura's new manga. Warning: Almost every name is potentially wrong; only one of them had furigana on it and most have multiple readings. Another warning: the raws I used were crappy 1000px high jpgs from my browser cache after using the official web reader.

DL: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X35Z6GMN

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 03:36:00 No.1074316 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074311
Good job. Nothing special in the first chapter, but if you keep translating, I'll keep reading.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 03:37:00 No.1074317 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074311
mediafire mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/?zkhnrljcnho24ld

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 05:10:00 No.1074362 Report

Quoted By:

The Kunie girl reminds me of Shinako in looks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 05:34:00 No.1074370 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074311
you are awesome! thank you!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 19:55:00 No.1074645 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074311
I love you, thanks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 21:01:00 No.1074656 Report

Quoted By: >>1074660 >>1074989

Are there subs for Takarazuka videos? I think I remember looking at some point, but only finding some locked up livejournal group or something

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 08 Jul 2011 21:18:00 No.1074660 Report

Quoted By: >>1074739

>>1074656
How about this, has anyone posted the translations by http://ti-project.livejournal.com/ online, or do you have to buy them from those people (expenses.. ha)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 01:52:00 No.1074737 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074311
THANK YOU

Awaiting for impending lesbian antics.

Sat 09 Jul 2011 02:02:00 No.1074739 Report

Quoted By: >>1074750 >>1074777 >>1075603

>>1074660
Do you know how much a full, non-subtitled Takarazuka DVD costs? Upwards of $80.

Do you know how many people outside of Japan have access to the only slightly more affordable Takarazuka TV broadcasts on Skystage? VERY FEW.

Do you know how long it takes to translate an entire musical? VERY LONG.

Please, those people are giving you access to something you'd usually only be able to see on Japanese television (or in the theater itself) AND then add on very good subtitles for your lazyass to enjoy. I think the cost of a disc and a shipping is worth it.

Sage for rage.

Sat 09 Jul 2011 02:51:00 No.1074750 Report

Quoted By: >>1075126

>>1074739
>Do you know how long it takes to translate an entire musical?
Assuming it isn't one of their original creations and you have access to a script or even song lyrics, probably not very long.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 03:45:00 No.1074777 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074739
>Do you know how much a full, non-subtitled Takarazuka DVD costs? Upwards of $80.

This is pretty much standard pricing in the Japanese home video market, for what its worth... and that hasn't stopped people paying that price six to nine times to complete an anime series on BD

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 12:30:00 No.1074989 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074656
I've been working on retiming the Phoenix Wright subs to match the version I have (subtitles are based on the dvd, I've have one broadcasted on sky age from a different day). Since it's on a different day there are a few skits that happen that don't have translations. If I can't get that last parts translated I'll still release it, I think anyone who played Phoenix Wright has to watch it haha.
Also there are scipts for Silver Rose Chronicle, Silver Wolf, Rome at Dawn and La Esperanza which I have some mid to low quality copies of so I'll probadly work on them over the summer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Jul 2011 22:27:00 No.1075126 Report

Quoted By: >>1075631

>>1074750
Most of them do not have released scripts. Lyrics, maybe but not scripts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Jul 2011 16:32:00 No.1075603 Report

Quoted By:

>>1074739

you can get Takarazuka TV / Skystage outside of Japan?! which countries? i'm assuming asian or taiwan??? please tell me ! thank you :)

Sun 10 Jul 2011 18:50:00 No.1075631 Report

Quoted By:

>>1075126
On their page for Scout, the TL note says that their subs might have more errors because they didn't have a script. Presumably, they did have ones for the other releases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 23 Jul 2011 10:13:00 No.1082509 Report

Quoted By:

>>1069147
and again, hopefully it's not auto-saging

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Jul 2011 23:43:00 No.1086303 Report

Quoted By: >>1086417

>>1058268
Attempting a bump with a bleak hope of archiving this thread.
http://chanarchive.org/request_votes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 31 Jul 2011 06:38:00 No.1086417 Report

Quoted By:

>>1086303
http://chanarchive.org/4chan/u/16355
Voting time!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 04 Aug 2011 02:55:00 No.1088368 Report

Quoted By:

Does this still bump? Come on, people, we need more upvotes.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 06 Aug 2011 19:07:00 No.1089671 Report

Quoted By:

Only 7 hours left to archive, have some Phantom and vote.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1R76BUA7

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO moon-elis-fold.jpg, 84KiB, 327x450

Anonymous Sat 06 Aug 2011 19:16:00 No.1089672 Report

Quoted By:

And Elisabeth.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=D42SI8XY
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7VY0ZVBQ
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=049B2BCL
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F4RX7FU4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Aug 2011 19:59:00 No.1089678 Report

Quoted By: >>1089692

So besides the one incident awhile ago, have any of the woman of Takarazuka actually fallen in love with each other or are actual lesbians? Or is it rare occurrence?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO berubara1991image.jpg, 75KiB, 274x400

Anonymous Sat 06 Aug 2011 20:47:00 No.1089692 Report

Quoted By: >>1089708

>>1089678
Hard to say since after one of the incidents years back they became way more strict about their public appearance, wholesome family fun and all that.

Also have a low quality performance of The Rose of Versailles from 1991. I'll probadly upload a better one from 2006 at some point.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W5RI8DIF

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Aug 2011 22:09:00 No.1089708 Report

Quoted By:

>>1089692
>I'll probadly upload a better one from 2006 at some point.
Oh, please do. I've always wanted to see it.

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