>>179637739This is just a fucking ridiculous assertion.
What you're talking about are all examples of good game design versus bad game design. Games that are well designed are constructed to a point where completion and success feel worth the cost of admission, regardless of whatever time or money (in the case of P2W ASSFAGGOTS shit) that entails.
I quit playing League long ago because I felt like I was being manipulated, but the core aesthetics of the game are solid. The "manipulative" part comes from not realizing you're involved in what is more or less a wild game of luck, and this is ultimately true of all MOBAs unless you have a five man. Coupling you and four random people against five random people is not an adequate measurement of skill, nor will it ever be.
It's hard to compare something like that to the absolute grindfest of Monster Hunter, which is a series I adore and have dumped thousands of hours into. The gameplay aspect of Monster Hunter that felt well designed was that fighting these gigantic monsters with friends requires teamwork almost unrivaled in a non-competitive setting; you need to know monsters' tells, be competent with your weapons, have enough items and munitions to keep yourself steady, and all be competent enough to build proper load-outs while dodging as much as you can.
Even though I still play MHFU to this day, I would never write off its design elements as "manipulative", nor would I any game. They're acts of willful self-participation with no real chemical or mental dependability aspect; if you waste your time playing video games it's your fucking fault.
Whatever happened to
personal responsibility?