/x/ - Paranormal » Thread #7549849

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 03:43:00 No.7549849 View View Reply Original Report

what does /x/ think of the Voynich Manuscript?
Basically a 500+ year old book found written in a completely unknown language. literally unknown as in not a single person has been able to either decode it or translate it.
Most experts believe it is either a alchemy manuscript written in the 1500's in code to avoid the church or a hoax... written in the 1500's.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 03:45:00 No.7549858 Report

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Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 03:56:00 No.7549922 Report

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The reptillians wrote it.
OR it's obama's birth certificate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:07:00 No.7549980 Report

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If you read french, one of our academic has done a thesis on the subject :

>http://www.apprendre-en-ligne[dot]net/crypto/bibliotheque/Voynich/these.pdf

I already mentioned this work in another thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:10:00 No.7550004 Report

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http://ia600305.us.archive.org/6/items/TheVoynichManuscript/Voynich_Manuscript.pdf

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:13:00 No.7550021 Report

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For a while certain scholars were absolutely convinced that it was a Cathar document giving special instructions to their Perfecti, who are the upper cast of ascetics in Cathar culture, to perform a special ritual know as Consolamentum. Consolamentum is form of suicide that person would choose very near the end of his or her life that would allow the person to die as a Perfecti even if they had not lived as one because of all the restrictions.

http://www.gnostic-jesus.com/gnostic-jesus/Medieval/Consolamentum.html

People were very excited when they thought it belonged to the Cathars because all of their sacred documents were though to be lost during the Albigensian Crusade. A period of time where the Cathoic Church brutally cracked down on Cathars and killed the majority while those that lived were tossed off of their lands and forced to sew a yellow cross on their clothing to identify them as cooperating heretics. All in all a really sordid affair that left many peaceful people dead.

http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/albigens.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar_yellow_cross

Terence McKenna discussed the Voynich Manuscript at length in his alchemy lectures which happen to be written during the time before it was proven not to be a Cathar document, however other than that incorrect conclusion his history of the Manuscript is correct, interesting and well worth a read.

http://www.well.com/user/davidu/tmalchemy.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:18:00 No.7550060 Report

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its a document from aliens that depicts the ritual flooding, destruction, and rebirth of the world.

restorethewonders.com/prophecy.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:20:00 No.7550077 Report

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My grandmother has a copy of this book which a company officially released. and they only printed a few copies of it so it cost like £300. All the colours are enhanced and all the dirty shit is gone from around the edges. I spent hours looking through that shit.. seriously it's the best book ever even though i had no idea what it said.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:21:00 No.7550087 Report

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It's what Scientology was derived from.
L. Ron Hubbard was the greatest linguistic genius of our time.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:30:00 No.7550152 Report

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McKenna believed that the Manuscript hand been in the hands of John Dee and Edward Kelly, the following is taken from his alchemy lectures found here:

http://www.well.com/user/davidu/tmalchemy3-2.html

Remember I said that Kelly's entre to Dee was that he had a mysterious book and you can tell from what I've said already, Dee was as big a sucker for books as I am. So this book, Kelly's story was that he had gone to sleep in the ruins of a Northumbrian monastery and slept in an open seplicar, a crypt of some sort, and when he awoke he found beneath him two things, a vial of red powder which he said was the transmissing powder, a necessary part of the alchemical process, and a book in an unknown language which he called the Gospel of Saint Dunstable, possibly because this monastery had been dedicated to Saint Dunstable. Now, Arthur Dee was John Dee's son and he said that, he became an alchemist in his own right, and he said when he was growing up he remembers that his father spent many hours puzzling over a book, as he put it, "all covered with hieroglyphics."

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:31:00 No.7550164 Report

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But Dee, who elaborated the angelologic language called Enochean, never actually wrote or discussed the book that he had received from Kelly. It is definitely not written in Enochean. Enochean, when grammatically analyzed by computers, has a curious relationship to 16th century English. But when Dee and Kelly traveled to Europe they were talking up Roger Bacon, who was a 14th century English monk who had dabbled in alchemy, and they claimed to have Bacon manuscripts and Rudolph became very interested in this and wanted to obtain some of these Baconian manuscripts. I suspect that what happened is that Dee, by this point, had given up on deciphering the Gospel of Saint Dunstable and decided that he would palm it off on the emperor as a Bacon manuscript because he didn't want to give up a real Bacon manuscript because they were too valuable to him. So for 14,000 gold ducats this thing changed hands and Kelly and Dee and Ann were able to pay their bills and Rudolph had immense resources because of his position as emperor and he brought his cryptographers and decipherers on to work on this Gospel of Saint Dunstable and got nowhere.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:33:00 No.7550173 Report

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Then, when Rudolph died, a mysterious book was numbered among the artifacts of his estate and I think we can assume that it's this book and one of the interesting things about this book is it has pages and pages of plant drawings. Over a 150 watercolors of plants, each carefully labeled, captioned in this unknown language. If you know anything about decipherment, this is what a decipherer dreams of because if you have a picture of the thing and a caption it doesn't take too much smarts to figure out what's going on. Nevertheless, this was completely unhelpful.

A third of the manuscript has pseudo astrological material, in other words what looked like drawings of stars and stellar shells but when carefully analyzed dissolve into meaninglessness, cannot be associated with anything, and then a third of the manuscript shows little naked ladies in what can only be described as elaborate plumbing systems and it was thought at one time that these must be drawings of the humors of the body in the liver, that these little naked women represented spirits moving inside the human body and then somebody else's guess was it must show an obscure form of German hydro therapy because, you know, the Germans, if you've ever been to Baden Baden or Marianbad or these places where people take the waters, well those places are old, old. And all this stuff is captioned and there are even tables of contents which again you would think would yield to decipherment and so when Rudolph died, because of the botanical material in this book, it passed to the court botanist, a man named Marici and he got nowhere with it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:34:00 No.7550182 Report

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Then in the early 16th century a great alchemist and polymath, some of whose art we'll see this evening, was Heinrich Kundrath(sp?), and Heinrich Kundrath was fascinated by artificial languages and he heard about the Voynitch manuscript and we have a whole batch of letters from Kundrath to the keepers of the estate of the emperor trying to obtain this manuscript, which he finally did obtain and then at that point he makes no further mention of it in his diaries the conclusion being that he, too, could get nowhere with this thing, it just defied decipherment.

Well, in 1619, at the outbreak of the 30 year's war, and this is what I forgot to mention in my earlier discussion, this episode of the Winter King and Queen is one way of debating the 30 year's war. It's usually considered to be the moment when a certain personage was hurled from a third story window in Prague and then fighting broke out in the streets but really the episode of the Winter King and Queen brought the thing to a head. Well, in 1619, to avoid being caught up in the 30 year's war, Kundrath decided to take holy orders and become a Jesuit and so he gave his library, which was compendious, to the monastery he joined which was a monastery in Southern Italy and there this thing sat until 1906 when a New York rare book dealer named Alfred Voynitch bought the entire contents of this monastic library and when he got it all back to New York and cataloged it, it was all very predictable 16th century theological and alchemical speculation except here was this book in an unknown language and Voynitch kept it throughout his life and then when he died he gave it to Yale and it is to this day at the Benikee rare book room at Yale.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:37:00 No.7550207 Report

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In the 1960s the CIA became interested in it because the CIA is in the business of code making and breaking, a huge amount of energy goes into this. If you know anything about the enigma project in WWII you know that vast energies go into the making of unbreakable codes and so they very systematically sought out all examples of encrypted material throughout history and just lickety-split deciphered it, one after another. All occult and magical codes known to exist in Europe can be traced back to one person, virtually to one person, to Trithemius, Bishop of Spawnheim who was the great teacher of Henry Cornelius Agrippa.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:40:00 No.7550224 Report

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The rest comes from this page:

http://www.well.com/user/davidu/tmalchemy3-3.html

All magical codes, if you know the Trithemian method, within a few hours you can get plain text. The Voynitch manuscript did not yield at all to this method and the CIA formed a working group that for over ten years would invite scholars in to have a look at this and if you're interested in this, Marie D'Amperio, who was a great Renaissance scholar, wrote a book called The Voynitch Manuscript, an Elegant Enigma in which she traces the efforts of the CIA to figure this thing out and to figure out what it could be.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:44:00 No.7550254 Report

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[Cut and Paster's note: the rest of the document works under the impression that the Manuscript is a Cathar document, we now know that that this isn't true, however I still think that the information is interesting enough to share, also after these I'll try to find some links that discuss more current theories.]

There the matter rested until about three years ago when, I think his name is Leo Levertov, some kind of military historian, one of these peculiar people who live for this stuff, he got a hold of it and he said, and deimlperia(?) goes through all the decipherment and there were many efforts at decipherment, there was a scholar at Yale in the twenties named Brumbra who was a very respected man who ruined himself by claiming a complete decipherment of the Voynitch manuscript and, the way the game is played is that you say what your rules for the decipherment were, you give the rules to a colleague and you give your colleague a page of text. If he can't translate it with your rules then you are viewed as a deluded and misguided person and your career goes up in flames. Well, the Brumbraian method for deciphering the manuscript had to do with confined pools of letters where, it would get you to a pool of five or six letters but then you could freely choose which one you used and critics of Brumbra demonstrated that you could make this thing say anything you wanted it to. Brumbra supported Dee's claim, he claimed that it deciphered out into a Roger Bacon manuscript that described a series of riots between the students and the black friars in 1385 at Oxford. But nobody else could make it say that or make it say anything so Brumbra disgraced himself and ruined his career.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:45:00 No.7550263 Report

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Then there were other efforts at decipherment which I won't bore you with but along comes Leo Levatov just four years ago and he wrote a book called The Voynitch Manuscript: A Liturgical Manual for the Catherites and his great breakthrough, if you accept his translation, and I do, I know people who don't but they don't seem to have read him as carefully as I have, I think the dude pretty well has it nailed to the barn door. His great breakthrough was to realize that it's not in code. It is not an encrypted manuscript at all. What it is is it's a synthetic alphabet, yes, it's an alphabet that, and one of the things that baffled the CIA is was they looted the libraries of Europe and they could never find another example of what is called Voynitch script and this is just baffling. How could there be no other example of this script. It appears that what happened was someone created a synthetic alphabet and then in a mixture of Medieval, polyglot Flemish with a huge number of loan words from Old French, Middle High German, and Swedish, wrote down a sacramental manual for the dying in the Catherite sect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:48:00 No.7550278 Report

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>"if you've ever been to Baden Baden or Marianbad or these places where people take the waters, well those places are old, old."

I work on roman healing baths in northern Gaul and Germania, i will definitly take a look at the third part !

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:49:00 No.7550287 Report

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Now, what is the Catherite sect? You're probably familiar with something called the Albajensian(?) crusade. This was not a crusade carried on against the infidel for the recovery of Jerusalem but rather a series of military actions carried out by the pope against communities in Southern France in the early 1200s. These people were Catherites. As far as we can tell, and we can't tell much because we only have descriptions of Catherites by people who were burning them at the stake, in other words no original Catherite documents survive, we just have what they screamed out on the rack as they were being put to death by the bishops of the church and this was a horrific incident in European history. To give you the flavor of it, the second Albajensian crusade was prosecuted by a general of the pope named Simone De Monforte and his lieutenants came to him, at a point, and some of you might have visited the city of Carceson in Southern France which is a walled Medieval city in Southern France, very beautiful, Simone De Monforte's lieutenants came to him and they said "We have cornered the Catherites at Carceson but the problem is is that there are 6,000 Catholics within the city walls." And he said "kill everybody, God will recognize his own." So that was the spirit in which this thing went forth, and they did, they did.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:51:00 No.7550302 Report

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So, what we do know about the Catherites is that they had a sacrament, the holiest my...well, first let me tell you a little bit more about them. At first it was thought that they were pretty much heterodox Christians. They were into nudity and vegetarianism and they sound like early hippies, as far as we can tell. They got together men and women, they took off their clothes, they bathed, whether there were orgies or not we don't know, they were vegetarians, and the one thing that we do know is that they had a sacrament called the consolamentum and the consolamentum was ritualized vivisection, no, that's not the word, the term escapes me, but anyway, when you were dying, a fellow Cather would cut your wrists and open your veins in a warm bath of water and you would die in that state, you did not die a natural death. This was called the consolamentum.

What Leo Levatov is claiming is that the Voynitch manuscript is a description, a manual, for the prefecti of the Catherite sect telling how to properly carry out the consolamentum. I see no reason to challenge it. Even with my limited knowledge of German, once you get the vowel and letter assignments right into this weird manuscript into this weird language and change it into English alphabetic text you can see that there's enough German there and then these lone words in Flemish and so forth, it looks to be true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:53:00 No.7550313 Report

Quoted By: >>7550361

Some pics look like they show hollow earth

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:53:00 No.7550315 Report

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And what emerges from this, if we accept the Voynitch manuscript as the only primary document on the Catherite faith, is that this was not a form of heterodox Christianity at all, it is much more radical then that and this may explain the church's fury with this group of people. It was a cult of Isis. It can be traced straight back into the mystery religions of Eo(?) Isis in Egypt and I have not seen any critical commentary on Levatov's book. His book was published by this weird press in Rodondo Beach that specializes only in books on military encryption. Their catalog is a revelation to see, it's amazing, and the book on the Voynitch manuscript stands out like a sore thumb because most of it is like dictionaries of three letter words in Swahili and their numerical transforms and stuff like that. So that's the history to date of the Voynitch manuscript and it's not that askew of our subject because all of this heterodoxy in Europe blends together.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 04:58:00 No.7550341 Report

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The presence of Theodore DeBrie as an alchemical printer in Heidleberg may be a clue because there were survivals of this Catherite faith in the form of a heresy called the brotherhood of the free spirit. If any of you are familiar with the altarpiece called "The Garden of Earthly Delights" by Hieronymus Bosch, it's thought that this was created by commission for a brotherhood, a congregation of the brotherhood of the free spirit and the brotherhood of the free spirit was always associated with some reason, we don't know why, with printers. Printers seem to be the profession that the brotherhood favored and, like the Catherites, they practiced vegetarianism, nudism and gathering together in a ritual bath. So, there is much still to be learned and to be teased apart in the art history and the history of heterodox thinking in Europe of which alchemy is seen to be one facet of a faceted gem that includes the brotherhood of the free spirit, early Freemasonry, Catherites, survivals of Manicheism, Voagamils(sp?) in Yugoslavia, there are Vogamils Vostrian(?) graves on the Southern coast of Thessolonica and just a whole zoo of intellectual systems that have been forgotten and overlooked. This what I meant when I said we will explore the statigraphy of lost thought systems. In some cases we possess quite complete skeletons, in the case of alchemy, what we possess in the cases of the Vogamils and the Catherites is almost a foot bone or a tooth or a footprint but someday, with luck, new textual material will emerge and a new understanding of the role of heterodoxy in the formation of modern thought will emerge. Questions?

................

And that concludes what Mr. McKenna has to say on the topic though I highly recommend reading the rest of his lectures on alchemy, also I will see what other Voynich related material and links are available.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:03:00 No.7550361 Report

Quoted By: >>7550395

>>7550313

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:04:00 No.7550374 Report

Quoted By: >>7550395

I don't understand why people take this so seriously.
Because about 100 years of now, Codex Seraphinianus will probably be the new Voynich Menuscript

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:07:00 No.7550389 Report

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Hmmm

Part 1 : Some drug used to prepare subject before "consolamentum" ?

Part 2 : Astrologic information about when to perform the ritual ?

And Part 3 : The key to ritual practice, water and surgery ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:07:00 No.7550393 Report

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I own a hard cover copy of the manuscript and have spent hours going through it and working out cyphers to no avail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:08:00 No.7550395 Report

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>>7550374

I agree. See>>7550361

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:11:00 No.7550408 Report

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In 50 years peoples will think the Elder Things was really happened once

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:11:00 No.7550415 Report

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Here is a scanned version of the Voynich Manuscript in pdf format.

http://www.mediafire.com/?obxc4sou5n3t1gz

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:13:00 No.7550427 Report

Quoted By: >>7550511

>>7549849
It's someone's attempt at designing a video game back in the 1500s. Easy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:19:00 No.7550464 Report

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Here is a page that discusses the many attempts at decryption as well as the conclusions drawn by each person or group, includes some rather recent attempts.

http://www.voynich.nu/solvers.html

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:20:00 No.7550473 Report

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Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:23:00 No.7550489 Report

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http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 May 2011 05:26:00 No.7550511 Report

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>>7550427
That's hilarious, maybe the author was a 1500's Ulillillia and the Voynich Manuscript was his version of The Legend of the 10 Elemental Masters. If you haven't heard of this I encourage you to read someone's review or description of it, it's interesting to say the least.

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